Fresh off my delving into bobbins, I thought I might dabble in the other mainstay tools to see if any are evolving. Most fly tying tools are in stasis, no significant changes have occurred since their introduction. Whip finishers appear to be one of these static areas, as surveying the web shows no new functionality, only a few minor tweaks to their design, and little to show for the increased costs inflicted on us by manufacturers.
Several decades after introduction, Frank Matarelli’s original tool has no real competitors despite advances in metallurgy and engineering. Reviewing the field of available options simply turned up copies of copies of Frank’s original design, and tools with new shapes and similar mechanics, suggesting little improvement is needed or possible.
Having been a victim of the ancient Herter’s Whip Finisher, and that experience scarring me forever, thrust me into a decade of “fingers only” whip finishes … until the callous on my forefinger started fraying thread mid knot … and I adopted the Matarelli Whip Finisher the moment I saw it.
Since then, very little has moved the whip finisher forward. Thread technology has moved into unbreakable, via Kevlar, and at the same time become more gossamer; Danville 6/0 giving way to Uni 8/0, yet the tool most used to finish flies has deviated little.
In reviewing what options exist, I found two “Familys” of change. The “flexible leg” group of Petitjean, Griffin, and Stonfo, and the “Extended Reach” group, led by Hareline and a host of inhouse brands, offering a larger version of the Matarelli whip finisher. The Petitjean family boasts different shapes and designs, but use the same mechanics as the Matarelli, and the Hareline Extended Reach copying the Matarelli Extended Reach, which is a larger version of their standard whip finisher. Larger isn’t so much a new feature, it’s more of a wrinkle on the original theme.
“Extended Reach” is a convenience that allows a tool-using fly tier to add a whip finish somewhere other than the eye of the fly. Some tiers prefer the whip finish knot to the half hitch, so the larger tool allows its use on other parts of the fly, as well as being able to do so on bushy flies and long shanked hooks.
In comparing the Hareline Extended Reach to my older Matarelli Extended Reach whip finisher, I found the Hareline to be about a half inch shorter (in overall length) than the Matarelli, and a poor fit to my hand. You’d think the larger tool would have a longer handle, but the Hareline only fits across half of my palm, and with the increased leverage of bigger tool and bigger fly, I found it to be a bit uncomfortable. The tool performed quite well, with only the grip and its placement in the palm an issue.
The Hareline Extended Reach whip finisher was able to place a whip finish at mid shank, at the tail, and similarly for mid and long shank hooks. The tool functioned well, spun effortlessly, and outside of the handle length would be a suitable replacement for the Matarelli I currently use. For those tying large flies and bass poppers, this is a handy addition to your tool kit.
I had high hopes that the Petitjean would bring something to the table to justify its $35 price tag. Having reviewed the Petitjean bobbin earlier, and admiring the new capabilities its designer brought to the tool, I had hoped to see something similar in the whip finish tool.
As a whip finisher, the Petitjean performed its task well, but not flawlessly. The spring side of the tool proved quite weak and immediately bent toward the rigid side, which closed the opening in the thread and gave it less clearance when the tool is spun around the fly. A finger is needed to clear the spring side of the tool from the thread loop and draw the thread tight. The finger must push the spring side out of the thread loop so the knot can be drawn tight – and the tool “hook” can release the thread completely. In addition, the polished stainless was not slick enough to cleanly release both the Danville 6/0 and Uni 8/0 thread, and while the tool functioned, the thread seemed “sticky” and did not slide off the tool as easy as chromed stainless. I felt I had to coax it a bit to come off the hook.
The Petitjean worked well as a whip finisher, but it brought nothing new to the table and seemed to be lacking a few refinements that would have made it much better. A stiffer spring, a different finish, and the tool would simply be an excellent, albeit expensive, whip finisher.
The Griffin and Stonfo whip finishers are made similarly. I would test these to determine the spring tension before purchase as they could be affected by the same issue. (Each user will have to decide if this is a “feature” or an impedance. Different tiers may react differently)
The Matarelli features two righid arms of the tool, allowing the tool to be moved within the loop it creates to release the thread from the indented side and the knot drawn tight while the thread is captured by the hook. It doesn’t require a finger to push the spring arm out of the loop formed by the crossed threads, typically, it can simply be pushed downward to free the thread from the opposing arm, then drawn tight. Less interaction means more efficiency, and not having to remove a forefinger from your grip on the tool – to push the spring arm out of the loop, means the Matarelli model wins outright.
Many new designs exist but the mechanical principals are identical to the Matarelli, the wire bends appear different, but the mechanics of the tier are the same, place tool in thread, thread held by two “arms”, rotate around hook, disengage.
The Reigning Champion of cost, appears to be the Tiemco Dual Standard Whip finisher, which features only slight changes in the Matarelli design, and identical mechanics. It does have a half hitch tool on the end of the handle, but half hitch tools are a couple bucks, and shouldn’t warrant an extra sixty bucks in cost for the whip finisher. Cost for the Tiemco is about $70.
/beginrant
Hard to fathom why we exclude so many people from the sport using cost as a weapon, then ask for their votes to protect a watershed they might be fishing … if the cost of fly rods were cheaper. We need more people in the sport, not less.
/endrant
In summary, little to report in the way of evolution of whip finishing. Tools are static and growing in price, and the expensive whip finishers are not needed by beginner nor expert, as they offer little in new capabilities.
Manufacturers would be better served adding a thread cutter to a whip finisher than a half hitch tool, as you want to marry logical steps versus simply reaching for the tool twice. Completing the knot then cutting the thread increase efficiency and speed, searching for the tool to do a half hitch, then searching again to finish the fly doesn’t necessarily save time over owning a separate half hitch tool.
For us fly tiers, find yourself a good “shop” brand, and purchase the sub-ten dollar Matarelli clone, save your money for a more worthy purchase.
In Part 1 of this post we reviewed a mix of high priced engineering marvels leavened with a few of the lower cost traditional bobbins. The hope is with the increased cost of some bobbins comes a variety of new capabilities and features, rather than simply increased cost for the same feature set found in less expensive options.
In Part 2 we’ll extend our earlier efforts onto a new crop of bobbins, some expensive, others less so, in the hope we can find evidence of bobbins evolving into something more, other than simply high priced gadgetry.
As with the first post, we’ll use the same series of simple tests for each bobbin; different threads, different flies tied – some large, some small, the ability to fit different thread spool sizes, loading the bobbin via mouth, thread management – if offered, and evaluate any unique new features on the bobbin not shared by the rest of the group.
The Dr Slick BOB4 bobbin is a simple recreation of the original Matarelli bobbin, with a dual “glass” barrel insert. There is no explanation on the maker’s website as to the “dual” designation, so I’ll assume the dual “glass” inserts imply an insert in the top and a second insert at the bottom of the barrel … versus a single insert extending through the barrel.
It is listed as a 4″ bobbin, and is 4.5″ from glass tip to bottom of thread spool when loaded.
This bobbin performed all tasks admirably, with no issues. Construction seemed solid, spool tension was adequate, and the only visceral reaction I had to the bobbin was the color of the glass insert. Both tip and bottom are black – which made the thread hole appear small and hard to find, especially if you’re loading black thread. The air flow seemed less when sucking the thread through, as if the hole were smaller than other bobbins, even though the barrel is wider than most. I was able to consistently load the bobbin via mouth, so the functionality was intact.
Thread tension, and thread management, is via “spreading the legs” of the bobbin forcibly, identical to a Matarelli bobbin, and the polished brass feet gave a consistent feel and provided smooth resistance to thread leaving the barrel.
This is a long tube bobbin. The overall barrel width is wider than most as it will not fit a 14 gauge needle scabbard, you will need to purchase a larger gauge if you employ them to protect your bobbins.
In short, this is a good quality, functional long tube bobbin, no frills or features, and is a good replacement candidate for the cost concious angler learning to tie flies and intent on possessing several more of these.
Bobbin: 4 Stars. No additional features outside of those consistent with the traditional Matarelli bobbin. A ceramic or “glass” sleeve is a common feature of today’s bobbins, so it is not considered unique for this test.
The Ekich bobbin has been around for a decade or so, and is likely the last word in thread management for fly tying bobbins. The marvel is the brainchild of Faruk Ekich of Canada, and his company, AutomaticBobbin.com.
This bobbin approaches thread management in a different way than spool brakes or simple tensioners, rather the focus is on both thread payout and recovery, versus simply making a spool brake to increase the tension on the spool.
The Ekich bobbin features a coiled spring that tightens as small amounts of thread are pulled from the spool, allowing this coiled energy to recover thread back onto the spool should slack appear in the thread via a user’s manipulation of the bobbin. The bobbin is precisely architected to provide about 33 grams of resistance to hold the bobbin and thread spool at the position of last use, and requires tension control of the thread via the user’s fingers on the spool, versus any mechanical tension adjustment. As the spring coils the bobbin can be moved toward the work area to recover thread back onto the spool.
This bobbin requires a little getting used to on the part of the user, and is the most expensive bobbin currently offered on the market, so you need to approach this knowing there is a bit of a learning curve, and significant costs are involved.
All fly tying bobbins have been engineered to dispense thread and the Ekich bobbin is engineered to dispense, and recover thread, which sets it apart from the rest of the pack. The small spring and its coiled energy can be used to recover thread, tighten half hitches, and plague the owner repeatedly when he forgets to release the pent up energy and cuts the thread when the fly is complete. The coiled spring immediately sucks the thread back through the barrel and you have to reload the bobbin over and over until you learn this lesson properly.
Spring energy can be dissapated simply by lifting the spool away from the spool housing with thumb and forefinger to allow the small peg on the housing to clear the thread spool, and it will immediately release all its stored energy. This peg fits inside the thread spool recesses and winds the spring as the spool is rotated dispensing thread. It has a 24″ capacity, so once 24 inches of thread has been pulled from the bobbin, tension changes markedly queing you to release the coiled spool. Note that wooden spools cannot be used on the Ekich bobbin as they lack holes in their surface that can engage this small peg. A few other spool types have minor issues, and notes can be found on the maker’s website for both workarounds and probibitions.
Bobbin function is admirable, with no issues on simple tasks. Loading thread via mouth worked well, the fit in the hand, including one handed operation of the “spool lift” to release spring tension, also worked flawlessly, the frustration associated with having the thread pulled back through the thread barrel on fly completion is completely mental … “old dude forgetfullness”, not a function of the mechanics of the bobbin.
I tested the trout model and it was NOT a long tube bobbin. The maker makes a Salmon model with a slightly longer tube (30mm versus 20mm for the trout size) that approximates the long tube style. This bobbin does not allow midge spools as they are too short to engage the rubber “O” ring, and midge spools lack the proper hollowed area to allow the spring peg to fit within them.
I tied large flies and small with the trout model and felt the 33g of precision control both a blessing and a curse. For small dry flies and nymphs the bobbin performed well until you approached the coiled spring limit of 24 inches of dispensed thread. At that juncture tension increased and it seemed prudent to release the coiled energy by lifting the bobbin up the spindel with thumb and forefinger, making the extra tension disappear and allowing additional work. This was an extra step not required of any other bobbin, and it was wasteful. The tension abruptly resets to 33g and it will seem suddenly sloppy-loose – compared to a moment ago.
As a fast moving, former commercial tyer, I am judgemental over wasted energy and unecessary steps, and I did not care for the required spring-coil adjustments. This is not something insurmountable, this is part of the “getting used” to this particular bobbin and its unique foibles.
On large flies and heavy threads, 33g was much too loose. Tying a big saltwater fly requires constant tension and pressure given how the amount of mats and their control can often be unruly. Resetting the bobbin tension to 33G under these conditions was a pain, something I did not like. The now relaxed tension was much too loose for the large fly and materials I was adding, and I immediately had to clamp down on the thread spool to avoid unwanted thread payout – especially as there are no warnings when you’re about to hit the 24″ dispensed thread boundary.
I did not find any information suggesting the Salmon size bobbin had a different tension value, so I have to assume it’s set for the same 33G as the trout model. This is great for 18/0 midge thread, but doesn’t work as well for Size “A” and a fistful of bucktail.
This bobbin might be well suited for specific types of fly, as I tested with the trout size and felt it worked best with small flies. The cost of the thread management is prohibitive in my mind, so I was not prepared to immediately purchase the larger Salmon model to see if it was better suited for the larger flies.
In summary, a good bobbin with unique features that require the user to adjust their tying style – instead of simply use. Bobbin: 3 stars, as the tension felt too weak to tie large flies, and the constant release of pent up energy was a wasteful step, that I often forgot. New Feature: Thread Management: 3 Stars. The thread management worked well dispensing and recovering thread, but the tension was constantly needing assistance from my fingers, even when my fingers were busy releasing coiled energy from the spring. The cost of this bobbin will make it prohibitive to own six or seven of them, so specific uses may make this bobbin more attractive to own compared to general fly tying. This is not a bobbin for a well heeled beginner to own, rather it’s a unique use bobbin for an experienced tier with specific demands. Good bobbin, excellent construction, with foibles … and a nosebleed price for thread management.
The Hareline Double Ceramic fits a midge spool right out of the box, so I’ll assume that will loosen over time if using standard size spools. This is another Matarelli bobbin replacement, with only the ceramic insert to offer new functionality over the aging Matarelli standard.
This bobbin has the largest tube diameter of all those tested, and coupled with the traditional flaired ceramic cap will not fit a traditional 14 gauge needle scabbard cover. The inside diameter of the barrel is also larger than all others tested, so it should work quite well dispensing thin yarn or floss in addition to thread.
Not surprisingly, this is really easy to thread and the easiest bobbin to load with simple suction, given how much oxygen can be pulled through the barrel.
The ceramic material lining the barrel is the “roughest” tested – imparting a noticeable “grating: feel to the thread as the bobbin rotated around the hook shank. While disconcerting, as I’m used to silky smooth ceramic and stainless barrels, this did not actually grate on the thread, it felt that way. Occasionally I would hear an audible sound when winding, suggesting it wasn’t just my imagination as to the “rough” surface. Note that I use quotes when describing “rough”, the barrel is not rough nor did it sever thread or wear it in the slightest, it simply felt like it was destroying the thread, and didn’t actually harm it at all. Of all the bobbins tested this was the only ceramic that had this feel.
Bobbin: 4 Stars. No new features, a solid Matarelli replacement in a long tube design, that due to the barrel inside diameter should be considered for dispensing more than thread. This would be excellent for fine yarns and floss.
The bobbin comes in two flavors; the red version of the SMHAEN is standard length and the blue is their midge version. Due to the constraints inherent in the design there is little ability to fit differing spools sizes due to the legs of the bobbin being joined by the tension adjusting arm. Not surprisingly it would not fit a midge spool in the standard model.
I purchased the standard version hoping it was closer to the long tube I was looking for, and like many of the other makers, the SMHAEN standard version is midway between a Matarelli standard and a Matarelli Long Tube bobbin.
The new feature available is thread tensioning adjustment, likely the largest range of adjustment currently offered in bobbins. The Matarelli relies on pressure from the bobbin legs, the Stonfo and Petitjean offer small adjustments via a tensioning slider, and the SMHAEN gives you a true thread brake, allowing you to lock the spool into an unusable configuration for light threads.
Upward movement on the tension adjustment (clockwise) tightens the thread, and downward movement of the knob loosens the thread. As the tensioner knob is available while gripping the bobbin you can adjust thread tension on the fly, in an intuitive and hand-friendly manner.
The SMHAEN has a prohibition on using Kevlar thread in the bobbin, so please note that its use may invalidate any warranty.
Bobbin operation was silky smooth. Thread can be sucked through the barrel and the bobbin loads easily via mouth. It has the thinnest ceramic insert of any of the bobbins tested and fits a 14 gauge needle scabbard perfectly. This fine tip is worth protecting with a needle scabbard as its thinness could be considered downright “sharp” if the ceramic chipped or cracked. I’m unwilling to test the ceramic inserts strength given smashing an $80 bobbin strictly for science is not my cup of tea.
Because of the design of the bobbin, its feet move the least of all the bobbins tested, and any variation in spool sizes may be an issue. This same tensioning arm configuration also means that changing spools takes three times longer than any other bobbin, as the adjustment knob has to be loosened to the point where the old spool can be removed, the new spool inserted, and then retensioned to the desired setting. This is a manual and cumbersome process compared to other bobbins, so frequent thread changes are undesirable.
This is a solid bobbin, pricey, but effortless to use outside of the spool changing issue. The ceramic barrel may be fragile due to the thinness of its walls, but this issue may require extended use and more opportunity for mishap, like dropping a pedastal base onto the bobbin while its resting on the table.
Bobbin 4 Stars. New Feature: 4 Stars if thread changes are infrequent, 3 Starsif you change thread spools often.
My compliments to the designer as they were able to devise functionality never seen in a bobbin that I didn’t know I needed …
That’s saying something.
The double feet on the bobbin did not move the needle for me, in fact I found them a liability in an unlikely manner. When threading a traditional bobbin you have to negotiate the thread past the two feet and into the barrel. With a double foot bobbin, you have FOUR wires in the way, and threading is a bit more of an issue. Four wires provides a bit more resistance to the thread spool, but I can’t say it was noticeable when using the bobbin.
The aparture for the barrel is quite small, as is the ceramic tube itself. It was easy to load the bobbin via mouth, but the four feet (four wires in the way) and small opening had me looking for reading glasses to assist the threading process.
What was a major change was the adjustable barrel, and how I no longer cared whether I had a midge, standard, or long tube flavor, as all those bobbins were available within this single chassis.
WInner, Winner, Chicken Dinner…
The bobbin barrel adjustment is identical to mounting a bit into a power drill. Tighten or loosen the cap, adjust the barrel to the length desired, then retighten the barrel housing to fix the barrel at that length. This adjustment can be made with the bobbin hanging from the fly as well as on the workbench. This functionality is immediately useful and can be used on nearly every fly tied. Adjusting the bobbin barrel length to your favorite setting, and tie with abandon on big, small, complex, or dainty.
The ceramic barrel, barrel housing, and chassis can be disassembled into three pieces. The barrel itself is 1.5″ long, so you can adjust the bobbin length about an inch comfortably. There is a minimum amount of ceramic barrel that must remain in the barrel housing to ensure a good fit and initial experimentation suggests it’s about half an inch of barrel that must stay in the tube to engage the mechanism properly.This gives you an inch of barrel to move in either direction.
Barrel fully extended the bobbin is about 4.5 inches long, with barrel retracted, the bobbin is about 3.75 inches long.
The ceramic barrel has a small diameter and as the barrel is extended, is at increased risk for a potential impact break. Tying at a show and dropping it into a backpack might expose it to a pedastal base impact as you add a vise, and while the ceramic barrel is a cinch to replace, I don’t see the vendor selling replacement barrels. This might mean the ceramic will never break, or it may mean you might have to learn to retract the barrel before storage in your tool caddy or backpack. The ceramic barrel is too small for a 14 gauge needle scabbard, but retracted, the housing accepts that size perfectly. I want to protect ceramic where possible, so this is becoming increasingly non-trivial.
For some reason Amazon is selling these at half price from a vendor in Japan. I bought mine for $34 thinking it was retail, and find all the shops in the United States are selling it for $80. Three different barrels are available on the bobbin, fine, standard, and heavy duty, but I only see the standard weight barrel available via fly shops.
I am going to purchase a couple more while Amazon has them at the lower price, just to ensure I have several.
Bobbin: 4 Stars. New Feature: 4 Stars. Really nice bobbin, well made and easy to use. New features operate intuitively, making it easy to assimilate them into your tying on the first fly. Really expensive bobbin so jump on the Amazon price while they still have a few. I hope this barrel technology will be used by other manufacturers versus making multiple bobbin lengths. Vendor needs to sell additional barrels so you can swap or replace your barrel.
Bobbin Summary
Over the course of these two posts we’ve seen only four areas of change in bobbins. Thread Management, Thread Tensioning, adjustable barrels, and the addition of a dubbed loop capability, everything else is the same feature set as the original Matarelli bobbin, with a few material changes to the bobbin chassis, like ceramic barrels. While some of the bobbins showed merit, some were easy to use, some required relearning a thing or two, and some were downright silly, several of the technologies hold promise.
As there are more than a single type of fly tyer, and many types of flies, different functionality may appeal to some versus others. Thread management is low on my list, thread tensioning a bit higher, but outside of the moveable barrel on the Tiemco, none of these are about to topple the low cost Matarelli type bobbins from their well earned throne.
Engineering marvels, all … and beastly expensive in light of what you get.
Hopefully you found a few questions answered without having to purchase all these costly bobbins. As always, I paid retail for all of the bobbins in both articles, with an emphasis on all bobbins boasting of new functionality (and nosebleed cost). In my mind, only the Tiemco offered a mature technology to me immediately, with the Petitjean … a glimpse of future function.
For the beginning fly tier, stick with the inexpensive bobbins for the moment. Changes to bobbin technology are in their infancy and the large dollar outlay is not warranted at the moment. As with fly rods, fly reels, and everything else in our sport, wait until your skills outclass your equipment before you plunk down the big dollars for bobbins (or anything else in our sport).
Disclaimer: As always I have paid full retail for all the bobbins reviewed above. This ensures cost is factored into the features reviewed, and my righteous indignation crops up appropriately at the precise moment needed.
The Griffin bobbin I reviewed offered a small cap over the bobbin barrel as an enhancement, a thread holder. The cap ensured the thread remained loaded in the bobbin after use and the bobbin could be stored with thread at the ready.
I discounted the Griffin enhancement notion, mainly because the caps were small, they only gave you one, and it would be lost within the week. The idea has considerable merit however, only you need a 100 pack of caps to secure your existing bobbins, especially as most aren’t made by Griffin, and all the older models and odd sizes you’ve accumulated need caps as well.
Stuffing a bobbin tip into a tool caddy can put dust and/or feather debris into the barrel – which winds up in your mouth when you suck thread through. Yuck, Ptuii ..
The same type of tip used by the Griffin Bobbin is used on a variety of items from glue bottles to air compressor nozzles, but finding the correct term to purchase them proved elusive. These small rubber caps are called “needle scabbards” and can be purchased on the Internet in everything from 50 packs to several pound boxes.
As these are linked to needles, they are sized by gauge. The standard Matarelli Bobbin barrel is 14 gauge, so for most bobbins that’s the appropriate size of needle scabbard to purchase. As gauge number increases the inner diameter DECREASES, so larger sizes for saltwater bobbins would be 13, 12, or 10.
Amazon sells the 14 Gauge caps only, with a 50 pack costing about $11 dollars. JensenGlobal.com sells the other sizes on their website, but the postage costs are fearsome ($30), despite their being in New York.
I have covered all my old bobbin tips with these as the idea is a winner. The rubberized caps protect against dings or burrs inflicted on the bobbin tips when in storage, and allow me to load my working bobbins with thread and not have to worry about rethreading after I snag the thread on my bench when reaching for them. As many of the new “fancy” bobbins are ceramic barreled, these will be a great protective element – as well as a thread holder.
The folks at Griffin would be advised to sell these in quantity, as their “one per package” is a mite laughable, given our penchant for having it disappear into the trash when we rid our table of accumulated feather dander.
After surveying much of the candidate field, my instincts suggest that the Petitjean bobbin is the only bobbin offering capabilities and functionality that have never fit within a bobbin’s pervue. As such, its unfamiliararity and unique foibles require a deeper look at the bobbin, to assess whether its promise is realized already or it’s a prototype of something that can only be realized later with additional refinement.
Let’s Get Price Out of the Way
The 800 pound gorilla in bobbin assessment is price. There are plenty of inexpensive “house” bobbins offered by vendors that cost less than five dollars and are copies of copies of the Matarelli bobbin. These bobbins work flawlessly, and as such, should be the default option for most tiers interested in problem free functionality at reasonable cost.
Beginning tiers should not look at anything but “tried and true” until their skills surpass their starter gear. Ditto for the commercial tier, who is focused on speed and wants his tying gear to function flawlessly without his having to fiddle with foibles or shortcomings.
Seventy-five dollars for a bobbin is excessive. Regardless of the alloy used, the engineering marvels it contains, and factoring in its innate ability to ward off vampires and disable hungry zombies, it’s hard under any circumstances to justify this kind of cost.
If cost is king, you don’t want this bobbin.
What capabilities would be worth a $75 bobbin?
I found myself asking this very question many times over. I had come to the conclusion that the only way to justify the hideous expense would be in counting the tools no longer needed, or counting the minutes saved due to the tool’s assistance.
In looking at my tying bench and the costs of the many tools present, the only options that come to mind are vise, scissors and hair stacker. If my bobbin could replace any of those tools it would likely pay for itself.
Unfortunately, these options aren’t in any of the bobbins sold, so any real feature increase in a bobbin is likely to be minor, replacing only the inexpensive tools like threader cleaners, dubbed loop tools, and their ilk.
Hence, the Petitjean Bobbin.
All the things I found out since the last article on the topic
As I dug deeper into the bobbin’s use I had to create new tests to determine where the foibles existed, and whether some of my initial premises were correct.
Grip Does Not Matter
How I gripped the bobbin and which side I rested my thumb on was the first issue I found my comments to be incorrect.
I find holding the bobbin with my thumb on the tensioner keeps the thread contained within the wire guide. If I was left-handed, or wrapped the bobbin counterclockwise, my instinct now is that I would hold the bobbin 180 degrees differently.Â
It doesn’t matter which side of the bobbin is towards you – or whether your thumb is positioned in a certain way, holding either side of the bobbin works equally well. I tested this premise by gripping the bobbin randomly while it spun under the vise jaws. I found no additional issues with the thread coming out of the tip guide regardless of my hand position.
So how was the thread coming loose?
It was the advancement of the thread up or down the shank, and the speed with which I did so that cause the thread to come out of the tip guide. When I advanced the thread quickly down the shank the bobbin tip would be ahead of the thread, sometimes at an really small angle, it would scrub the rim and find the small aparture of the tip and come out. If I wrapped more methodically down the shank (instead of going from eye to bend in three turns) the bobbin acted normally no matter how I held it. It’s a mix of speed and angle that can cause the thread to come out.
The Plane of the bobbin may influence this behavior
If the bobbin is held parallel to the hook shank and the thread is advanced down the shank quickly, the thread may find the aperture of the tip guide and come out. If the plane of the bobbin changes the same law applies, but it may not be as obvious. The point is to ensure the angle of thread (between point of attachment on the shank and tip of the bobbin) is not too small, implying the tip of your bobbin is far in front of the point of attachment, where you took your last wrap. Remember the thread “scrubs” its way around the tip of the bobbin as the bobbin rotates around your hook shank, too acute an angle and the thread finds the opening and is released.
I tied several dozen parachute flies to test the bobbin’s attitude in relation to the tying area. In the first test the bobbin was held with the tip down and parallel to the parachute wing, wraps were applied to the wing post. In the second test, the bobbin was held with the tip pointing toward the parachute wing, and the bobbin was wrapped around the wing. Both tests were successful, and the thread did not come out of the guide.
It appears that only the acute angle issue, coupled with speed, causes the thread to find the aperture, instead of the attitude of the bobbin in relation to the work surface. The plane of the bobbin can influence the behavior, but the cause appears to be the same … acuteness of angle in the new plane combined with a meat headed fly tier intent on completing the fly quickly.
By now I’d tied about six dozen flies with the bobbin and most of the issues were moot. I’ve not used the thread tensioner while tying the trout flies as setting the tensioner once is all that’s necessary for similar sized flies using the same thread. Replacing the thread and changing the hook size to saltwater had me change the thread tension, but again only once.
Summary: This is a bobbin that functions well in the hands of an experienced tier. It is not without flaw, as the thread can pop out of the tip guide when you get forgetful and move the thread either up or down the shank quickly.
The dubbed loop tool is useful when tying nymphs, less so when tying dry flies, and I tied more dubbed loop flies than normal as it was so convenient to do so with this bobbin. The thread tension function tends to be “set it and forget it” if tying similar sized flies with the same size thread. This tension adjustment was the best I’ve tried so far – not a complete brake on the spool, but noticably increasing the tension.
The cost makes this a luxury item. This is not for the average tier who will eventually own a dozen of these bobbins. While the Matarelli bobbins copies are plentiful and cheap, most tiers will choose to own a dozen of them instead.
Rating: 3 Stars. The cost of the bobbin is prohibitive, and the thread can come out occasionally even when you’re used to the bobbin, New Functionality: 4 Stars. Good thread adjustment, dubbing loop tool works well, once you’re used to it.
In this day and age of the $700 fly tying vise, and the $1000 fly rod, the $75 dollar bobbin is in lockstep with what we’ve done to the sport. I can’t say I agree with where we’re heading, but I’m not surprised at any of this.
Personal Note: I really like the bobbin, but it does not justify my owning a dozen of them. This bobbin appears to be the only real advancement of the bobbin as a fly tying tool, but it’s cost is staggering in light of what you get. I can’t think of a capability that when added to a bobbin would make it worth a hundred bucks, but I have to applaud Mssr. Petitjean for his efforts and his vision.
I’m thinking of adding to my supply of long tube bobbins and realize that in the decades since the Matarelli era, dozens of vendors have moved into this space and replacement candidates abound. Many are simply low cost copies of copies, but there are numerous high dollar bobbins boasting of functionality beyond thread management.
What’s a curious fellow to do? ,,,
I found a few reviews of bobbins, but remain skeptical of the traditional angling press and magazines. Most reviews simply anoint the items as “dipped in Awesomeness” – whose author is more interested in not offending his supplier of freebies, than ensuring the rest of us get an honest appraisal. Few write about features or shortcomings, and none list any form of testing or criteria used. Like the Stock Market, fly fishing culture never lists a security as “sell” … only weaker shades of “buy.”
My quest started as a search for a good “long tube” bobbin, as they seem to be the most comfortable for me to use. They keep my fingers away from the work area and provide an unobstructed view of the works surface destined to recieve my next material or wrap. Wading through the long list of new candidates offered on web sites suggested that actual details of bobbins are rare. Trying to figure out which were “longer” than others was near impossible, given how little details were available.
First, most of the bobbins fail to mention how long they are … so you can’t tell if you’re looking at a “long tube” bobbin or a “standard” length. As standard lengths vary from vendor to vendor, the average fly fishing retailer does an abysmal job of getting information to their online users, relying on a picture and text supplied by the manufacturer, which simple restates, “trust me it’s awesome.” Most bobbin listings have no length described whatsoever, and others list the barrel length, but not the overall length, and as there is no “standard” other than the original Matarelli sizes, confusion runs rampant.
Example 1: $20 Bobbin. Loon Ergonomic Bobbin :An ergonomic and high-performing update to the indispensable tying tool. The powder coated ergonomic handle rests perfectly between the thumb and fingers, while the spring steel spool holder allows for easy adjustment in tension by changing the pressure applied by the feet. The tube is made of double radius polished tungsten – better than ceramic! It’s also designed with versatility in mind: the high gauge works well when tying small flies, and the tube is long enough to tackle large patterns as well. This bobbin will not work with a standard bobbin threader it need the extra long bobbin threader from Loon. [No information of bobbin or barrel length.]
Example 2: $114 Bobbin. TMC Magnetic Adjustable Bobbin: This precision-made bobbin has it all, including a fully adjustable ceramic tube and a unique magnetic tensioning device with a low startup inertia which puts an end to breaking even the finest thread. The length of the super-durable, friction-free ceramic thread tube is adjustable for different size and style flies and the versatile bobbin adapts to different width thread spools, helping to make the tying process smooth and effortless. It’s even got a built-in keeper for the tag end of your thread to keep it from falling back through the tube during storage. [No information of bobbin or barrel length]
Example 3: $37-$49 Bobbin. Tiemco Ceramic Bobbin. The durable TMC flanged bobbin tube is polished to perfection, which eliminates all friction, and simplifies tying and threading. [No information of bobbin or barrel length]
Example 4: $35 Bobbin. FlyRite Ceramic Bobbin. Standard size ceramic bobbin with tension control, allowing to adjust for different diameters and strengths of thread. [No information of bobbin or barrel length]
Example 5: $75 Bobbin, The SMHAEN bobbin is a super functional, micro adjustable-tension fly tying tool featuring a unique design and highest quality workmanship. Its tension system allows you to adjust tension with only one finger, while still working on your fly. Thanks to the perfectly designed ergonomic frame shape, you don’t even feel the internal tension system in your hand. A funnel at lower end of tube allows easy threading. The ceramic tube and the well balanced bobbin holder give you perfect thread control. Fits a range of spool sizes. [No information of bobbin or barrel length]
From the examples above you can see the problem. A fly tier with a length requirement (long tube versus regular) cannot even find out if the bobbin he’s interested in …. is either. There is no “standard” length for bobbins as the word is used to quantify different qualities, not just length, so quoting anything as standard is meaningless.
The lack of information on fly shop web sites suggested that i was about to embark on a search akin to finding vernille yarn, where I hope for the best, trust in the photograph, exhaust all due diligence, then order one and check its size and capabilities before ordering more.
The volume of new offerings suggest there are now two types of bobbins. The first being expensive bobbins that boast new features and capabilities, and the second being inexpensive copies of the traditional wire-handled Matarelli bobbin – with “inexpensive” being a relative term, as they might be two or three times what other makers charge for the same product.
I choose to investigate a few of each to test the waters. The end game was a good “long tube” bobbin that I could recommend to others, should I encounter some capability in these more expensive engineering marvels, I might be tempted to spend more … than my wire-framed baseline.
As regards testing criteria, it had to be functionality that was available with the original Matarelli bobbin to be allowed as a criteria. New bobbins might offer features not present on the Matarelli, but as different features are offered by different manufacturers, the basic criteria would have to be common to all :
Testing Criteria for Bobbin Evaluation
No impediments to threading the bobbin via mouth. Sucking the thread through the barrel to achieve a proper load.
Would it accept “sewing” machine spools, or is it limited to only standard sized thread spools. This would be a feature, not a requirement.
Was the barrel length equivalent to a Matarelli “Long Tube” bobbin, or was it best described as a “standard” length bobbin. “Standard” length being roughly equivalent to a traditional Matarelli bobbin.
Smoothness of thread payout. Bobbin feet are made from plastics, metal, composites, and can be cone, round, lozenge, or pill shaped. Thread spools sold in fly shops are all plastic. Does the bobbin feet (shape and material) payout thread smoothly when pulled, or does the material or shape provide an uneven tension when thread is needed.
If a new feature is offered by the bobbin, that was not available on the traditional Matarelli, does it work? Is the feature useful, or simply “really cool.”
For the purposes of this article, please note the following:
The Barrel Length is the distance between the tip of the bobbin and the bottom of the thread tube, where the thread is inserted to load the bobbin.
The Overall Length is the distance between the tip of the bobbin and the bottom of the thread spool when a standard sized thread spool has been inserted into the bobbin.
New Features are capabilities of the bobbin that did not exist in the Matarelli family of fly tying tools; Midge, Regular, and Long Tube bobbins.
Testing Methodology. Each bobbin tied three dozen flies; Caddis Poobah – size 10, Clouser Minnow – size 2/0, and Pale Morning Dun Parachute – size 16.
The Stonfo Bobtec 1 was a pleasant surprise. It isn’t a “long tube” bobbin, rather it is slightly longer than a Matarelli Standard (about 0.25″ longer), and shorter than a Matarelli Long Tube bobbin, so it’s precisely between the two. It was a perfect fit for my hand size, did not require any adjustment on my part, and I was tying flies instantly.
I liked the Stonfo enormously, but knew it was neither a long tube bobbin, nor would it feel as good to someone with a different hand size. So my initial reaction warranted additional study.
I was able to suck thread through the barrel per normal thread load. The thread tensioner added a little more tension to the spool, but not enough to make it a true tension adjustment. Perhaps it would be useful in adjusting between 6/0 and 8/0 trout thread, but it was not enough tension to make a difference on Size A thread and a 2/0 striper fly. The thread tensioner was not useful to me as it did not have the ability to bear down on the spool, markedly increasing tension.
I did not like the bobbin legs bending easily, and staying bent. I doubt they are using spring steel versus a cheaper less resilient flavor. Prolonged use of the bobbin should have an eye for determining if a leg needs adjustment, given they can move and stay that way.
In summary, the Stonfo was an excellent bobbin, Because it was ideally suited to my hand size and grip I really liked the bobbin. It performed well on both small and large flies, as well as with heavy threads. There were no thread feed issues, the thread barrel was immaculate and smooth. It will not fit the “midge” style sewing bobbin size spools, and I tested the tensioner to see if it would compress the legs enough to allow their use, but the tensioner simply isn’t strong enough to do anything than a minor tension increase. I would recommend the bobbin, but there are many bobbins cheaper than $30 that would work as well as the Stonfo.
Bobbin: 4 stars. New feature: Thread tensioner, 1 star. It tensions the thread slightly, not enough to matter.
New Feature: Thread barrel and thread barrel housing spin on bearings
This bobbin advertises that all “torque” is removed from the thread as the tier’s thread wraps are negated by the free spinning bobbin barrel and housing. Each turn of thread taken on the fly is now free of the rotational forces of our “clockwise” or “counterclockwise” wraps.
This bobbin feels “fat” in the hand, and is the second longest of the first group tested. When loaded with thread it’s a full five inches from tip to spool butt, and for some pedestal vices that may be a bit much. A tier planning on purchasing a new vise should check the distance between jaw and table, as any bobbin approaching this five inch length may have issues when free hanging under the vise. Use of a dubbing loop or similar device requiring the bobbin be some distance from the hook shank, may not allow the bobbin to “hang” freely, rather it might have to hang off the table surface to hold tension.
The bobbin spins true, but only the black colored area of the bobbin allows you to impart spin to the bobbin. All silver areas spin without moving the bobbin, so dubbed loops require a thumb and forefinger low on the bobbin, in the area of knurled knob at midpoint. I did not find this useful, rather I felt constrained by NOT being able to grab the thread barrel and spin between thumb and forefinger. I can’t say the natural “torque” I impart to the thread via wraps as having ever been bothersome, so I cannot justify all the glitzy spinning elements as being warranted.
I had difficulty sucking the thread through the bobbin with my mouth. I could do it, just not as consistently as with any other bobbin tested. I was able to get the thread into the barrel, but occasionally it seemed it stuck to the sides of the tube (via damp breath?} and never came out the other end. This bobbin comes with its own threader cleaner to aid in loading the barrel, but for me these extra tools are simply something to misplace or drop.
Operation of the bobbin was flawless and silky smooth. There were no issues with thread handling or management with the rotating barrel or the rotating grip portion on the bobbin. Once threaded, the bobbin did its job admirably, and handled both heavy thread and trout sizes very nicely.
This bobbin will not fit the smaller “midge” spools of thread, only standard sized spools.
Bobbin: 3 stars. As I did not like the feel in my hand, too bulky. Could not load thread reliably via mouth, Had to grip below the midpoint to impart “spin” to the dubbed loop. (Silver portion of the bobbin is on bearings, only the black portion of the bobbin allows you to spin it.) Probably feels good to someone with larger hands than mine. New feature: Spinning barrel and housing0 stars. I cannot claim that the torque imparted to thread is that bad of a condition to warrant this extremely expensive fix.
I chose the Renzetti Salt Water Bobbin as it appeared to be the “long tube” version of the Renzetti bobbin line. As the dimensions of the bobbin are not typically part of the website write up, I used photos of the bobbin to determine it was the longer style. It turns out that the Renzetti Saltwater Standard Bobbin is the longest of all the bobbins tested in this first group, coming in at 5.25″ from ruby tip to the base of the thread spool.
Like the Kopter Bobbin, this long length could pose a problem for a pedestal user, whose vise is a bit shorter than most. The longer length is fine for wrapping thread, and it’s useful when tying streamers on long shanked hooks, as you can get the thread in close to the shank for precision work, yet keeping your fingers out of your line of vision and out of the work area entirely.
The plastic / composite feet held spools of thread well and provided a clean smooth surface when paying out thread while wrapping. The flared base of the thread barrel aided loading the bobbin with thread prior to sucking it through the barrel. The bobbin boasts a larger barrel diameter already, given it’s a saltwater bobbin, but I found the flared end to be a nice touch overall.
Renzetti’s use of the term “standard” is also a bit confusing, given that most makers use standard to refer to length, and Renzetti appears to be using it to distinguish it’s LINE of bobbins, versus shape or length.
There were no new features on the bobbin other than the flared thread barrel. The “ruby tip” I’m lumping into the ceramic tube category, and for the purposes of this article, makes it a new material choice instead of a new feature.
Loading the barrel via “suck” worked fine as did the thread barrel (ruby tip) and bobbin feet. Both thread barrel and feet were quite smooth and worked effortlessly. The larger size lent itself nicely to size “A” thread and lashing a gob of bucktail to a 2/0 hook.
In summary, this is a nice bobbin for any size fly and outside of the issue with length and short pedestal based vises, would not hesitate to use it as a primary bobbin.
Bobbin 4 Stars. It is a Matarelli replacement with no additional gadgetry and feature set. A worthy replacement for a Matarelli bobbin.
New Features: Flared Barrel (both ends), Thread retainer (Plastic cap on thread barrel)
Griffin was the second vendor to lump their “long tube” option in with “Saltwater” … not sure if this is a trend among manufacturers, but the longer tube doesn’t necessarily mean bigger flies, it’s mostly a hand configuration or “fingers away from the work area” issue, versus simply long tube equals big flies…
This is another of the traditional replacements for the Matarelli bobbin. The flared ends of the thread barrel are a nice touch. Feeding thread is assisted by the larger opening, and the flared tip of the bobbin didn’t give me anything new but it didn’t hinder anything either. I could suck thread through with minimal issue, and each thread load worked flawlessly.
Both barrel and feet fed thread smoothly with little resistance, and thread tension was liight and adjustable in the old manner, stretching the feet outward. The thread retainer, which was nothing more than a rubber cap added onto the top of the thread barrel, was a good idea but it’s likely to be misplaced immediately. I hope Griffin sells these by the dozen, as I’d like to add them to all my bobbins – and keep extras in my bench when I lose the SOB’s …
The bobbin comes with a wire threader in the package.
This is a suitable Matarelli replacement. A serviceable “no frills” bobbin, nothing new to speak of and nothing to complain about either.
Bobbin: 4 stars. New Feature: Thread Cap, 1 star, as it will be lost within the week. Four star idea to cap the bobbin tip with a simple rubber cap, but you need a couple dozen caps close by so you can replace them as they are lost or misplaced.
New Features: Thread tensioner, thread loading, dubbing loop tool
This bobbin is something otherwordly, and I’m not sure how best to characterize it. I love and hate it, and understand that in order to rate it properly, I will need to spend a bit of time learning how to use it. At the moment I’m unsure if it’s a work of art, an engineering marvel, or a complete waste of time.
Let’s start at the beginning. Of the first group of bobbins tested, this is the only bobbin that brings new functionality to the tier, but will require the tier to learn how to use the tool as not all of the features and functionality are intuitive.
It may help to watch a few of the videos on Youtube featuring the designer Marc Petitjean to see how effortless the bobbin can be used by tiers practiced in its use … it will help you over the rough spots as you fumble your way through your initial encounter.
As I did.
New Feature: No thread barrel. The thread is held by a small metal clip on the bottom of the tube, and is threaded onto a small circular wire at the tip of the tube, there is no hollow barrel – rather it’s a hollowed out groove for the thread to follow when inserted into the clip and the tip guide. The wire guide at the top of the barrel has a minute opening that allows thread to be inserted into the loop, but the minute opening also dictates how the bobbin is held, as the thread can come out of the tip as easily as it is added.
Think of it as, thread moves around the barrel when you make a wrap around the hook shank, so you want to avoid the thread approaching the opening. I found it easy to understand how to avoid the thread coming out of the tip when winding around the hook shank, I’m still attempting to understand how to avoid the thread coming out when winding a parachute post – and my hand is not moving in a vertical plane. It may be as simple as keeping the bobbin parallel to the parachute wing and pointed downward, as pointing the bobbin at the wing post allows the thread to escape the tip guide. These are small adjustments in the use of the bobbin that are not intuitive, you have to puzzle out the mechanics and practice.
Example of Physics: I wind right-handed, typically wrapping clockwise around the hook shank. I find holding the bobbin with my thumb on the tensioner keeps the thread contained within the wire guide. If I was left-handed, or wrapped the bobbin counterclockwise, my instinct now is that I would hold the bobbin 180 degrees differently. This may or may not be true, I’ll have to puzzle through the actual physics when I have mastered all the basic skill with the bobbin.
New Feature: Thread Tensioner. This bobbin offers a thread tensioner operating on the same principle as the Stonfo bobbin; a sliding block that brings the bobbin feet closer together, thereby increasing tension on the thread spool. The difference between the Stonfo and the Petitjean is the Petitjean tensioner really can adjust thread tension, and the Stonfo cannot.
I was able to adjust the tension on the spool to the point where I might be able to break a light thread, 8/0 or finer. This was a welcome adjustment on the large saltwater flies I tied, as I could adjust the tension for the size “A” thread and really secure bucktail and flashabou. This thread tensioner actually works, but isn’t a complete brake on the thread spool, just offers real noticeable resistance when set to heavy thread.
New Feature: Dubbing Loop tool. The Petitjean bobbin has a small notch in the thread guide area that allows you to throw a dubbed loop, add dubbing or other material to the loop, insert the bobbin tip into the base of the loop, then pull downward to secure the loop onto the notched area. Once secured, the bobbin can be spun to make the dubbing brush.
In the video the finished dubbed loop is fed onto the shank via vise rotation, and most tiers – even those with rotating vises don’t use that functionality often. I am attempting to learn to wind the dubbed loop using the bobbin instead. This is a bit awkward, yet I see videos of other tiers that have managed it so more work is needed before I can make the transition comfortably.
What I can say is that the bobbin makes dubbed loops so easy and convenient that I find myself using them a lot more than normal because of the new functionality.
Summary: This could be the bobbin that obsoleces the Matarelli standard. The Petitjean bobbin requires effort and time to learn and I am not there yet. The feed and thread management is largely effortless and works quite well, but the cost of the bobbin and the investment to relearn how to use it is non trivial.
I want to give the bobbin four stars, but I recognize that is the masochist in me speaking. I love a good challenge, and this bobbin provides a glimpse of what the future may hold for bobbin technology with appropriate practice.
Summary: This bobbin is not for the beginner tier, and the cost is approaching nosebleed levels, so I would advise potential buyers to find one they can try first before purchasing one. I really like this bobbin, but until I work through all the adjustments needed for winding thread in different planes, I would not recommend this for the average fly tier. A few videos on Youtube are available, most rate it as “dipped in Awesomeness” per normal, but it’s likely they did so after mastering the nuances of the device.
The price tag when compared to our existing bobbins is astronomical. The Petitjean bobbin eliminates a threader cleaner, and a dubbing brush tool, which reduces the nosebleed costs slightly …with the remaining costs compensated only by the increased functionality.
Bobbin: Will rate later. New Features: 4 Stars. The first real thread tensioning I’ve encountered, the first dubbed loop functionality added to a bobbin (that really works), and the threading on clip and tip, instead of the hollow thread barrel – works as advertised – provided you hold the bobbin correctly. Holding the bobbin with thumb on the lower barrel “clip” side works flawlessly, holding the thumb on the “non clip” side allows the thread to escape the tip when wound around the hook shank.
Part 2 of 2: Bobbin Reviews: Lots of Options, Plenty of Price Points, and a Glimpse of the Future
In the next installment I will select an additional set of bobbins containing as many high dollar “engineering marvels” as possible, with a couple low cost Matarelli clones to ensure we get a good cross section. All the bobbins tested so far provided the basic functionality needed, with the only unknown being longevity, and would the different types of barrels and feet survive several decades of use and remain smooth and unscathed.
Disclaimer: All of the bobbins reviewed above were purchased by me at full retail. This ensures some small amount of integrity on my part, and gives me the ability to factor in the cost with the functionality, something I would not be able to do with gifted products.
When “Vernille” burst on the fly tying scene it made significant inroads into our use of rayon chenille. At the time, chenille was weak – relying on a pair of twisted threads to hold fibers onto a spun core, and even the most careful handling caused the weave to lose their integrity and start to shed fibers, often resulting in a mangy or lumpy look to the fly.
In contrast, Vernille could be manhandled, wound repeatedly, and would not lose its structural integrity nor its fiber payload via hammy fingers and unravelling ends. Vernille, also called “velvet chenille” or “ultra chenille” was superior in both function and tolerance of abuse, and only the lack of colors and sizes were problems, issues that were soon rectified.
Chenille and Vernille share similar issues in that fly shops tend to only stock the “medium” size, ignoring the fact that multiple sizes exist, and never offer the product in “skein” form, a 150 yard bundle common to the fabric business, relying instead on prepackaged three yard cards to ensure you visit your fly shop frequently.
Fly tiers need to understand that yarns are like cars, not every color is available
Fabrics, and the yarns that make them, have short lifespans due to the fickle nature of fashion trends. Yarns may only have a window of one to three years before they are discontinued in favor of “the new hotness” in yarn weight and color. Seasonality also determines availability, given heavier yarns seem to be most plentiful in the Winter, and lighter yarns in Summer. Occasionally yarns can be tied to specific garment types, like socks or swimsuits, and their availability and longevity are influenced by the garment usage.
This frequent obsolescence cycle ensures that fly tiers that don’t purchase a multi-year supply of colors are at risk of minor or major shortages later, when the yarn is discontinued by the manufacturer. Fly shops aren’t helping this issue, due to their insistance we buy a three yard card, instead of skeins of our favorite colors.
Trout anglers need the taupes, olives, browns, and earth colors. Steelhead fishermen desire the scarlets, purples, flourescents, and outlandish flavors, and the yarn industry determines what colors they market by garment type and usage, ensuring not every color will be available for each yarn introduced. This means that yarn colors are like cars, and for the 2024 model year they won’t market a “purple” – but it may be available in two years when they reintroduce the yarn!
I only buy skeins, never cards, so all my yarns and chenilles are purchased via fabric and yarn stores, not sold by fly shops. I’d love to give the local fly shop business, but so long as they only stock cards, I will buy yarns and chenille elsewhere.
Weight and Needle Size, a Fly Tier’s lesson in knitting
Understanding yarn weights is not easy, and you have to be careful that you are ordering a yarn capable of tying flies versus too big for anything other than a 6/0 hook. Knitters have elements on the yarn label that denote size and use, and this is a foriegn language to fly tiers.
We’re used to large, medium, fine, and they use terms like “fingering”, “baby”, and “worsted”. Needle size is also a measurement of yarn width, so if the label lacks English, (as many do) the needle size denotes yarn size information as well.
While not an expert, I will attempt to translate. “Fingering” and “Baby” correspond to our “fine“, “Worsted” and “Aran” correspond roughly to our “medium“, “Chunky” could be large, depending on the yarn … and anything bigger is largely unusable for fly tying. As yarn is made by both metric and standard manufacturers subtle differences in size do exist.
Armed with how to read a yarn label, we’re now ready to buy some suede chenille.
Search Engines don’t help much
Search engines don’t help much when searching for this type of chenille, as the result is dominated by fly shops and their tiny little cards. Years ago, Vernille was called “Velvet Chenille” and now the more accurate term is “Suede Chenille.” Searching for either returns numerous pages of fly shops and their carded offerings.
The trick is finding yarn manufacturers that make Suede Chenille, and exclude the fly shops selling it.
When on a manufacturer’s website you’ll be innundated with pages of yarns whose colors and qualities look useful. The quality of the photographs will determine if you can distinguish between four-ply twisted wool and suede chenille. You will also find many yarns you’d like to inspect further – but will have to purchase, have sent to you, then inspect by hand to determine if the yarn is useful or not.There is no ironclad search term that will remove the fly shop data from what you’re looking for, you simply have to search for yarn manufacturers both in the US and abroad. To shorten your search and to apply your sizing information, feel free to use my suede chenille vendor of choice, ICE Yarns, of Turkey.
ICE sells on both Ebay and direct to consumers and appears to be one of the larger yarn companies on the planet. They call their “vernille” yarn, simply “suede chenille”, and is available in 26 colors and only one size, my favorite, which is “fine“. I have found many other suede chenilles at other vendors and manufacturers, in multiple sizes, but ICE makes a superb yarn whose size allows me to double wrap my chenille bodies instead of only single wrap. In addition, this smaller size allows me to use for trout flies as well as steelhead flies, which is a additional bonus.
Note the yarn is listed as “light” and “worsted”, with a needle size of 4 metric. On our yarn chart above, it is a “3” in size. That would make a true “medium” yarn an “aran” or “4” for this company. It is a “microfiber” yarn, typically 100% Polyamide, and will look and feel the same as the yarn sold in the fly shops, only about 25% smaller width than their “medium” thickness.
The price of the ICE Suede Chenille is $1.37 per 155 yards (one skein), and is only sold in packs of 8 skeins per package, about 1000 yards of chenille for about $11 dollars. Shipping is very expensive, because it’s from Turkey, so expect to pay about $6 per pack (of eight skeins) to get it to the US. This is “rock bottom” cheap. Seventeen dollars for for a lifetime supply, equivalent to 300 of the fly shop cards (@$2.50 each) …
Get together with some of the other tiers at your casting club and work out the colors needed for an aggregate order for everyone. Most tiers will only need one skein for a lifetime supply, so find seven other tiers and split the packs evenly – reducing the cost to a couple bucks for each skein.
I’m not going to spend additional time finding vendors of the larger sizes, I will leave that up to you. I will mention a couple of candidates that I have not yet investigated, Toucan lists a “worsted” suede chenille using a larger needle size, don’t order large amounts until you have confirmed it to be the correct size. Order a single skein and verify it is what you expect, it’s the only way to ensure you are looking at the correct size and texture. Note that this yarn is about half pastel colors so if you’re looking for flourescents and similar, you’ll need to find an additional yarn,
Most of the suede chenille yarns you’ll find at Michael’s are of the “Bulky” or “Super Bulky” variety. If you are purchasing it via the Internet and unable to handle the yarn, you must confirm the needle size on the label to guarantee it’s a fit for fly tying. If the needle size is not apparent, look for the textual description of size; fingering, worsted, etc.
Lion has discontinued the “Lion Suede” yarn, but we can use it as an example to determine its suitability for fly tying… Skeins are still available on Ebay, and from those I took the illustration above. Note the needle size is more than double my “fine” example, making this yarn a really thick (bulky or superbulky) suede chenille.
As ICE is liable to make this yarn only for a short time, another tool to assist your search is the Yarnsub.com website. It allows you to enter the name of a yarn that used to be available, and it will recommend yarns like it that are currently available. This is valuable as it gives you a half dozen new leads to focus on for your search.
Entering “Lion Suede” into its search engine produces other suede chenille yarns for you to consider. Use your skill with needle size and the size chart, above, to determine if any of the options are in your size range. Note that Lion Suede is a bulky yarn, so most of the solutions are also “bulky.” Those listed as “baby” are likely what you’re looking for – as “baby” is a smaller size. Clicking on the smaller size yarn will change the search criteria to matching yarns of the smaller size, allowing recursive searches to refine what you need.
Take a trip to Michael’s or your local yarn outlet to practice your visual sizing. There are small differences between standard and metric sizing, and you need to practice reading the yarn label to connect the yarn size in your hand with the needle size listed on the label. The internet does not allow you to touch the product, so your only option if looking for something special is to learn the sizing nomenclature and committing the reserved words; Worsted, Baby, and Fingering, to memory.
On a final note, not all velvet and suede chenilles are created equally. Some of them (especially the bulky and superbulky sizes) can have a very loose weave akin to rayon chenille, so they will fall apart if not gripped carefully. It is ALWAYS preferable to order a skein of a candidate yarn and examine it in person before jumping into a larger order of every color desired. This will save you the embarrassment of overlooking the “superbulky” on the label, or the label might be entirely in Chinese characters, and no translation is possible.
Do your due diligence on each candidate, order a single skein to confirm the properties; size, texture, and construction, and only then order a lot of the yarn.
Follow Up Note:
I ordered skeins of the Toucan Fine, the Boheme Velvet, and the YarnArt Dolce Baby yarns to see if they were also suede chenilles. Each would be described as a “medium” chenille, so the sizing is correct and the labels are the same size as our traditional chenilles (note the needle size mentioned for future searches). They are not “vernille” or suede chenilles, I would classify them as either traditional rayon/polyester chenilles akin to what we normally see in stores, or they are velvet chenilles, not woven tightly enough to qualify as what we know as a “suede” chenille. The Toocan Fine is my favorite of the bunch, but being traditional chenille it will unravel if the ends are not carefully handled. The Boheme Velvet is a knitting chenille, and is partially flat, something I find unique to chenilles made for knitting. It can be spun to a round chenille easily enough, but in its native form has some flatness to it, almost like they flattened one of the four sides. Lashing it onto a hook shank and spinning the strand will return it to a “round” chenille shape and texture.
In summary, these are the correct sizes for our traditional medium chenille, these are not vernille or suede chenille as we know it.
I spent more hours trying to find “gold” than anything else, and gold being the, “..first or second most popular wire” in fly tying, I knew I had to return victorious versus carried on my shield. In hindsight, I’m thinking there may be an electronic convention that only certain colors are used to wrap electric motors, and that’s why some colors are easy to find and some not at all. Not being an electrician I can only guess that color and use are tied together when describing magnet wire, as certain colors are simply not available, hence the countless hours of my searching,
“Magnet wire” is the electrical name for the colored fly tying wire sold in fly tying stores. The enamel coloring of the wire also acts as an insulator. allowing it to be wound around a core to produce a magnetic field. Magnet wire is available in a huge range of sizes; in spools weighing from five pounds to as small as the three yard spools sold in fly shops. Magnet wire is available in only a few colors however, natural copper, amber (similar to natural copper), red, green, and blue. Searching electrical supply houses will not yield colors like gold, silver, black, and olive, or any of the other colors available to fly tiers, I assume its electrical use is somehow tied to specific colors.
After countless hours of searching and several dozen manufacturers, the answer is simple. The wire is made by the large wire makers, but the colors are marketed to different customers. The electrical trade uses a finite grouping of colors, and all others are marketed to the “craft” industry.
If you require larger spools of enameled copper wire in other colors, specifically Gold, you need to use the search criteria, “craft wire” not “magnet wire.”
The problem with “craft wire” is that most of it is used for beading and jewelry work, so the sizes available are tied to strength, not necessarily its ampere rating. The wire sizes fly tiers use most commonly are 34 (34AWG) and 36 (36AWG) gauge. As the gauge number increases, the wire gets smaller, so 36 gauge would be for (roughly) size 14-16-18 hooks, and 34 gauge would be for 10-12-14 hooks. 32 gauge wire can be really useful on large flies, big stoneflies or steelhead flies, but isn’t sold in fly shops, only in electrical or craft venues.
Brass wire is “gold colored” and is much stronger than copper, and is used extensively in the jewelry business, so is an option for both fly tying and jewelry. It is tougher and stiffer than copper, so requires good scissors to cut it cleanly. Many types and sizes of brass wire exist in the jewelry business, but fly tiers should avoid all but the smallest sizes, 32, 34, and 36AWG. In addition to using your heavy scissors on brass, you need to ensure it is enameled with a clear coat, as brass can discolor with age. (Most jewelry grade brass wire is properly sealed, but the occasional off-shore vendor may not coat their wire).
Stainless steel wire is also commonly available as a “silver colored” wire. If you have a quality set of heavy scissors it is a wonderful, tarnish proof, version of a silver wire, but don’t use good scissors to cut it, you will destroy them over time. Excellent for salt water flies, used in 32 AWG.
Your biggest wire use will be natural copper and gold. The first is easy to find, and the second, gold, is very difficult to find as it is the craft variant. Internet search engines are NOT your friend, as searching for “gold wire” or “silver wire” will return gold (or silver) plated, or gold (or silver) filled wire, “Gold colored wire” made of copper will not even make the first couple of pages of the search result. Search engines will return, in order; real gold wire, gold plated, gold filled wire, brass wire, and then other wire types, like gold colored copper or aluminum wire.
As craft wire is intended for jewelry, real gold and real silver are more commonly used than all other wire colors and types, and dominate all search results from Google or similar search engines. AI based searching is a little better, but AI searches (using CoPilot or similar) are not yet smart enough to distinguish between real gold and gold colored, so you have to select your search terms carefully.
Many craft oriented vendors exist but few accomodate our need for the smallest craft wire sizes, and most only carry craft wire to 30AWG, which is much too thick for fly tying, and not terribly strong for jewelry. Finding a consistent source of gold or silver colored craft wire is problematic.
Artistic Wire is a vendor of many different colors of colored copper wire. They offer nearly 30 colors of copper wire, and brass wire, but only down to 34AWG. The above chart shows that a 1/4lb spool of 34 gauge wire contains about 2000 ft of wire, and retails for around $12-$15 dollars. Considering that a fly shop sells the same wire for $4 for 15 feet, and you can see the savings.
Only Gold and Copper wire are used in quantities warranting the purchase of larger spools, but some tiers may have unique needs. Local flies like Olive or Brown Copper John nymphs, or steelhead flies tied with woven copper bodies may require larger quantities of wire on hand.
The best source of craft related materials, and wire, is the ETSY website. Etsy is similar to Ebay in that it is a market of individual vendors, stores, and hobbyists, and sells nearly everything needed for craft making. Like Ebay, Etsy vendors can be long or short lived, so buying small amounts may require different vendors for every sale. I tend to buy the 1/4 lb spools, which ensures that I need only make one purchase per lifetime
Etsy’s search interface is mind numbingly long, and is not very helpful in the results it returns, due to its use of “popular” results versus what you actually asked for … Searching for a specific color may be onorous due to your inability to get more precise in Etsy search. Etsy does have most of the colors and sizes of wire we’re accustomed to seeing at the fly shop, and it has considerably more sizes, most of which are not useful however.
Ebay also features craft wire and overruns of products sold at a discount. Each tier’s unique needs will determine which vendor or source suits them best, but remember to check the gauge to ensure you’re getting the right size as well as color.
Rules for Buying Wire on the Internet
Always buy copper wire from an electrical source. “Natural” colored copper wire is the easiest and cheapest wire you can find. Craft sources sell it for two or three times what the electrical sources sell it for, so select your copper wire using the search criteria, “Magnet Wire” which will only return electrical vendors.
Buy your Gold (colored) wire via the search term, “Craft Wire”. Gold colored wire is easy to find on Etsy or Ebay using the craft designation in your search.
When buying either, ALWAYS double check the gauge you are buying. With simple enamelling, 34 Gauge wire is typically, decimal 0.016, and 32 Gauge is typically, 0.020, if the vendor only supplies the decimal sizes, use this as a reference to what you’re seeing.
Trout sizes of wire are 34 or 36 gauge, large nymph and steelhead, 32 gauge.
Searching for fly tying wire can be especially rewarding when you need colors not stocked by your local fly shop. Many of the jewelry uses require imitations of the different types of gold, yellow, rose, or red gold, and additional colors are available due to the jewelry usage. Most fly shops don’t stock a huge selection of wire, but you can find nearly every color you need on the Internet. Etsy features color assortments from some vendors
Remember that nothing is made expressly for fly tying. The number of fly tiers is too small an audience to command unique products from the huge metallurgy vendors that make wire for real industry. Ultra wire is simply wire, there is nothing special about it, nor is there any unique properties that make it especially good for fly tying, other than its gauge and color.
In summary: Fly tiers have a huge range of sizes available in red, green, amber, and natural copper colors, and have less selection of sizes in nearly every other color. Beading and jewelry requires heavier wire than we use, so typically the smallest sizes for craft wire are in the larger ranges of fly tying wire, 32-34 gauge. (32-34 AWG)
Recommendation
Buy 1/4 or 1/2 lb spools of only GOLD and COPPER colored wires, in 34 or 36 gauge wire. I would buy both if cost is not an issue. These larger spools change with the price of copper, currently around $14 to $20 per spool.
Buy 34 gauge if your nymphs trend to the larger sizes (12 or larger), and 36 gauge if you tie mostly smaller sizes (14 and smaller). Please note that you can use the smaller, 36AWG on any fly size – I’m assuming that 34 gauge is identical to Ultra wire, so choose accordingly.
These represent the lion’s share of all fly tying uses, and will be the spools you reach for time and time again. The rest of the colors are optional – although the gloss black wire. and coffee brown wire did catch my eye … I’m still puzzling over whether to get the five pound spool on those …
Frank Matarelli was a towering, unsmiling, fellow partial to checkered hunting jackets. His physical stature and opinions brooked little disagreement, as he reduced the complex to simple, making current events, politics, and Grizzly hackle, all manageable in a single breath.
He lived out in the Avenues of San Francisco, on Irving Street, neighbor to his close friend Cal Bird. Both were prolific tiers, but Frank was the more secretive of the two, as only family and Cal were allowed to see his garage work area, housing his machinery and tool production. Cal described Frank’s tool building process as a wide leather belt, or harness, that allowed him to bend wire and steel via body weight. “Frank threw his body all over to bend wire to make whip finishers.”
Frank and I were both members of the Golden Gate Angling and Casting Club, and as I taught their fly tying classes for many years, we crossed paths frequently. While Cal fished closer to home, Frank took yearly vacations to Montana, and eventually purchased a vacation home there, close to his favorite fishing.
Frank was a machinist for the San Francisco Chronicle newpaper when I knew him, so his skills with metalurgy were acquired over a lifetime of machine shop work. I’m unsure what he was responsible for at the newspaper, but with all the heavy machinery on the premises, it’s likely both repair and fabrication were involved. He was a meticulous craftsman, as evidenced by the quality of his tools, and was always eager to invent the better mousetrap. He was a vocal critic of his competitors, but criticism was warranted given how poorly their tools performed, in the comparison, and how cheaply most were made.
One glimpse at Frank’s fingers and you understood why his whip finisher was so important to him. He had a job-related ridge of callous on the edge of both forefingers that prevented him from performing whip finishes with his hands. He often absent mindedly trimmed away this callous with nail clippers while talking with you, but the resulting uneven surface would sever thread instantly. His whip finisher kept the thread at a safe distance from his digits and ensured a successful knot.
Despite an imposing presence and his stark opinion, Frank was a grand fellow worthy of regard. He enjoyed watching other tiers weave their magic, and took pride in his ability to increase their skill via the quality of his tools. He always carried extra sets in his pocket at shows and many were his highly prized “presentation” tools, made with stainless steel instead of brass, that you couldn’t purchase retail, you could only get from Frank as a gift.
Matarelli Presentation tools in Walnut and Bamboo
… and he gave away plenty of them. Frank would watch any tier closely and was keen to reward talent with a set of his tools. Just as keen would he lambast you for using someone else’s tool if you had a set of his already in possession. Both rewarding talent and his removing “inferior” products would always be done in good taste, with humor, as Frank was a real gentleman despite his gruff exterior.
Frank had multiple prototypes of tools made from a variety of materials. He made bobbins from both metal and wood, used brass, copper, and stainless elements in his tools, and even made hackle pliers, which he never marketed, but you could receive as a presentation gift. He made a lot more tools than most realize, given his wooden versions, his midge, regular, and long tube, bobbins, his presentation whip finishers, in regular and extended reach configurations, and the normal whip finishing tool. In addition to these, Frank made both a midge and regular size bobbin threader, and multiple bodkins, which also were only available as a presentation tool
When Cal Bird introduced his pair of dubbing tools, he mentioned to me that Frank was producing them for him in his garage. Cal was a caligrapher by trade, and produced all the instruction sheets and package labels for his tools, but Frank did all the wire work and shaping for Cal.
:Matarelli whip finishers. Early prototype, normal, presentation, and presentation extended reach
My proximity to Frank’s watchful eye meant I was a frequent beneficiary of prototypes and oddities, as well as admonishments when he found me fiddling with some new vendor’s offering. While I loved tinkering with new tools, I learned to pocket them if Frank’s shadow darkened the doorway. Frank knew I was a commercial fly tier as well as a casual hobbyist, and I was gifted numerous prototypes with which to fiddle. Frank knew that commercial tiers have different insights into products; how they wear on fingers, how easily they’re gripped, and how they are slid off the work surface versus held in hand. Quite a few club members were pressed into service to refine things as were numerous tiers in Montana, where he spent his summers.
I recently espied quite a few mentions of Matarelli tools on Internet forums, many inquiring as to their value as they are no longer made. Like most tiers, I’d not thought of “value” regarding tools, as efficiency of use will trump monetary value in every case. Recently I’ve thought I might explore some of the pricier bobbins to see if there is a fit replacement to the Matarelli long tube, and whether several decades, several flops of engineering alloys, and a couple additional sawbucks have increased the capabilities of Frank’s design, instead of merely their cost.
I have added some photographs of all of the Matarelli tools and prototypes in my possession, which will allow the WayBack Machine to catalog them for future generations. It’s important that those of us with first hand knowledge of these “OG” angling legends recount what they know so that future generations of anglers can learn as we did.
Matarelli Hackle Pliers
On the featured photo at the top of the article are the Matarelli Hackle Pliers, they were spring loaded where upward pressure of your thumb would extend a small stainless hook outwards to grip the hackle and lodge it against the barrel of the plier when tension is released,
All flavors of the presentation whip finisher; standard, extended reach, and wood handled, had a small “V” notch cut in the end of the tool to sever thread. The non-wood presentation model feature a silver, stainless steel barrel (handle) versus the brass of the traditional retail tool. This thread cutting capability makes them highly prized by those fortunate enough to own a pair, as the tool is already in hand when the finishing knot is applied, and the thread can be cut without reaching onto the work surface for another tool or scissors.
The walnut bobbin is for the “midge” size sewing machine thread spools. This is because all the old school tiers purchased thread in cones instead of spools, and decanted the thread onto sewing machine spools via a power drill held in a vise. Threads used for fly tying were much larger than today, and traditional sized spools were shallow and held much less thread than the thin, deep, metal spools for sewing machine use.
I’m sure Frank would be pleased to read many of the comments on the “value” topic of Matarelli tools, and how despite their increase in worth, not a single tier mentioned his willingness to part with his Matarelli tools at any price.
The sight of a box of Maple Sugar Tintex isn’t likely to raise your blood pressure nor cause your heart to flutter, but my recent encounter was cause for an unsightly display of my version of Snoopy’s Happy dance …
Maple Sugar is a color that is no longer made by the Canadian dye maker, Tintex, and is the original color for the dyed Teal Flank that Cal Bird used for the Bird’s Nest. Maple Sugar Tintex, is also an outstanding source of imitation Wood Duck when dyeing Mallard flank as its replacement. Tintex stopped making the color nearly forty years ago without giving us fly tiers a chance to lay in a goodly supply.
After several decades of fruitless searching, garage sales, and similar venues, I’d not been able to turn up some old stock from any source.
Tintex and RIT were both consumer oriented dyes, fixed with salt, that were intended for home use, on curtains, garments, and hosiery. From the 1940’s onward, both RIT and Tintex were available on every store shelf, in every variety store, and nearly all the “Mom and Pop” neighborhood stores. Old school fly tiers, who dyed their own colors to suit local insects requiring custom colors, used both as the “go to” agent for creating materials not readily available.
Both RIT and Tintex have their fixative agent, salt, mixed into the dye powder to make the dye process foolproof. Protein dyes, more commonly used with feathers and fly tying materials, use acid as the fixative, and it is NOT premixed into the dye. Jacquard and similar companies require you to add acid, typically a 5% Acetic (White Vinegar) or 10 % Muriatic (swimming pool acid), into the dye bath to make the color permanent.
Tintex dyes are still made in Canada but many colors have changed and they are no longer in most American stores. RIT won the domestic battle, but even they are only present in a third of their former locations.
Pure stubborn mixed with an elephantine memory allowed me to stumble onto a stash of old Tintex dyes, and it was akin to Harrison Ford glimpsing the Arc of the Covenant … there, gleaming in their aging plasticine wrappers,were five boxes of Maple Sugar, which would be enough to equip a regiment of anglers with teal feathers.
Both RIT and Tintex prepacked boxes dye about a pound of material. More if you will settle for a lighter shade of the color, less if you need it darker. Five boxes means I can dye about two and half kilos of teal flank, which is enough Teal flank to depopulate the Pacific Flyway …
Fishermen are a superstitous lot, with as many metaphysical hangups and superstitions as baseball players and gamblers. NOT owning any teal flank dyed in the original color will NOT make your flies less fearsome, but as success in fly fishing is always due to the angler’s confidence in his fly, your ersatz offering might interest minnows and frogs, while mine …
… … well, I might be going home with the Prom Queen … as it’s my lucky day ..
Just finished tying a few dozen Clouser Minnows using the smaller sewing machine spools and a Matarelli Midge bobbin designed for the smaller spool size.
So I don’t confuse the reader I’ll need to change the nomenclature a bit. The spools for sewing machines are called “bobbins” and we call the apparatus that holds the spool a “bobbin,” which can lead to confusion on the part of the reader. I will call the sewing machine bobbins “spools” – as in sewing machine spool, to distinguish the fly tying tool from the container holding the beading thread.
Unlike sewing machine spools, which are made of steel, the NYMO beading thread is packaged on plastic spindels, with paper sides rather than metal. While the paper thread spools work, my hammy hands and their grip on the fly tying bobbin dislodged the spool from the midge bobbin frequently. I had to change my grip a bit to make these work, and once aware of the issue I was able to make them work reasonably well.
Unfortunately, additional definition is needed for what I am describing as a “midge bobbin.” Frank Matarelli made his midge bobbin expressly for the sewing machine spool size – and NOT for our traditional thread spools. Matarelli tools are no longer made, and today “midge” bobbins are typically smaller, lighter bobbins made for tying small flies using the conventional thread spool sizes.
Us old timers that still have a few midge bobbins remember how cone-based thread used to be a reality, and moving fly tying thread from one form to spools was not such an imposition. Naturally, this should “color” your view as to whether this smaller spool form of NYMO is worthwhile for your tying.
It’s likely that winding a rubber band onto the legs of traditional bobbin would close the legs enough for a sewing machine spool to work better. The extra tension afforded by the rubber band might make your current bobbin an option.
Heavy tension on the bobbin while tying can work the thread into the crevass between paper spool side and the packed thread itself. I didn’t get any tangles, but I did get a few turns of uneven tension as a result. When working with big saltwater flies this isn’t much of an issue, but could be if the thread sizes and flies tied were smaller.
In summary, there was a wee bit more bother using the paper spools due to the tier’s palm pushing the paper spool out of the grip of the bobbin’s legs. A grip adjustment was necessary so that I didn’t continually knock the spool from the grip of the bobbin legs. As this thread is 2/0 or larger, you will be tying flies commensurate with the thread size and force will likely cause issues. Be so advised.
