After surveying much of the candidate field, my instincts suggest that the Petitjean bobbin is the only bobbin offering capabilities and functionality that have never fit within a bobbin’s pervue. As such, its unfamiliararity and unique foibles require a deeper look at the bobbin, to assess whether its promise is realized already or it’s a prototype of something that can only be realized later with additional refinement.
Let’s Get Price Out of the Way
The 800 pound gorilla in bobbin assessment is price. There are plenty of inexpensive “house” bobbins offered by vendors that cost less than five dollars and are copies of copies of the Matarelli bobbin. These bobbins work flawlessly, and as such, should be the default option for most tiers interested in problem free functionality at reasonable cost.
Beginning tiers should not look at anything but “tried and true” until their skills surpass their starter gear. Ditto for the commercial tier, who is focused on speed and wants his tying gear to function flawlessly without his having to fiddle with foibles or shortcomings.
Seventy-five dollars for a bobbin is excessive. Regardless of the alloy used, the engineering marvels it contains, and factoring in its innate ability to ward off vampires and disable hungry zombies, it’s hard under any circumstances to justify this kind of cost.
If cost is king, you don’t want this bobbin.
What capabilities would be worth a $75 bobbin?
I found myself asking this very question many times over. I had come to the conclusion that the only way to justify the hideous expense would be in counting the tools no longer needed, or counting the minutes saved due to the tool’s assistance.
In looking at my tying bench and the costs of the many tools present, the only options that come to mind are vise, scissors and hair stacker. If my bobbin could replace any of those tools it would likely pay for itself.
Unfortunately, these options aren’t in any of the bobbins sold, so any real feature increase in a bobbin is likely to be minor, replacing only the inexpensive tools like threader cleaners, dubbed loop tools, and their ilk.
Hence, the Petitjean Bobbin.
All the things I found out since the last article on the topic
As I dug deeper into the bobbin’s use I had to create new tests to determine where the foibles existed, and whether some of my initial premises were correct.
Grip Does Not Matter
How I gripped the bobbin and which side I rested my thumb on was the first issue I found my comments to be incorrect.
I find holding the bobbin with my thumb on the tensioner keeps the thread contained within the wire guide. If I was left-handed, or wrapped the bobbin counterclockwise, my instinct now is that I would hold the bobbin 180 degrees differently.
It doesn’t matter which side of the bobbin is towards you – or whether your thumb is positioned in a certain way, holding either side of the bobbin works equally well. I tested this premise by gripping the bobbin randomly while it spun under the vise jaws. I found no additional issues with the thread coming out of the tip guide regardless of my hand position.
So how was the thread coming loose?
It was the advancement of the thread up or down the shank, and the speed with which I did so that cause the thread to come out of the tip guide. When I advanced the thread quickly down the shank the bobbin tip would be ahead of the thread, sometimes at an really small angle, it would scrub the rim and find the small aparture of the tip and come out. If I wrapped more methodically down the shank (instead of going from eye to bend in three turns) the bobbin acted normally no matter how I held it. It’s a mix of speed and angle that can cause the thread to come out.
The Plane of the bobbin may influence this behavior
If the bobbin is held parallel to the hook shank and the thread is advanced down the shank quickly, the thread may find the aperture of the tip guide and come out. If the plane of the bobbin changes the same law applies, but it may not be as obvious. The point is to ensure the angle of thread (between point of attachment on the shank and tip of the bobbin) is not too small, implying the tip of your bobbin is far in front of the point of attachment, where you took your last wrap. Remember the thread “scrubs” its way around the tip of the bobbin as the bobbin rotates around your hook shank, too acute an angle and the thread finds the opening and is released.
I tied several dozen parachute flies to test the bobbin’s attitude in relation to the tying area. In the first test the bobbin was held with the tip down and parallel to the parachute wing, wraps were applied to the wing post. In the second test, the bobbin was held with the tip pointing toward the parachute wing, and the bobbin was wrapped around the wing. Both tests were successful, and the thread did not come out of the guide.
It appears that only the acute angle issue, coupled with speed, causes the thread to find the aperture, instead of the attitude of the bobbin in relation to the work surface. The plane of the bobbin can influence the behavior, but the cause appears to be the same … acuteness of angle in the new plane combined with a meat headed fly tier intent on completing the fly quickly.
By now I’d tied about six dozen flies with the bobbin and most of the issues were moot. I’ve not used the thread tensioner while tying the trout flies as setting the tensioner once is all that’s necessary for similar sized flies using the same thread. Replacing the thread and changing the hook size to saltwater had me change the thread tension, but again only once.
Summary: This is a bobbin that functions well in the hands of an experienced tier. It is not without flaw, as the thread can pop out of the tip guide when you get forgetful and move the thread either up or down the shank quickly.
The dubbed loop tool is useful when tying nymphs, less so when tying dry flies, and I tied more dubbed loop flies than normal as it was so convenient to do so with this bobbin. The thread tension function tends to be “set it and forget it” if tying similar sized flies with the same size thread. This tension adjustment was the best I’ve tried so far – not a complete brake on the spool, but noticably increasing the tension.
The cost makes this a luxury item. This is not for the average tier who will eventually own a dozen of these bobbins. While the Matarelli bobbins copies are plentiful and cheap, most tiers will choose to own a dozen of them instead.
Rating: 3 Stars. The cost of the bobbin is prohibitive, and the thread can come out occasionally even when you’re used to the bobbin, New Functionality: 4 Stars. Good thread adjustment, dubbing loop tool works well, once you’re used to it.
In this day and age of the $700 fly tying vise, and the $1000 fly rod, the $75 dollar bobbin is in lockstep with what we’ve done to the sport. I can’t say I agree with where we’re heading, but I’m not surprised at any of this.
Personal Note: I really like the bobbin, but it does not justify my owning a dozen of them. This bobbin appears to be the only real advancement of the bobbin as a fly tying tool, but it’s cost is staggering in light of what you get. I can’t think of a capability that when added to a bobbin would make it worth a hundred bucks, but I have to applaud Mssr. Petitjean for his efforts and his vision.
I’m thinking of adding to my supply of long tube bobbins and realize that in the decades since the Matarelli era, dozens of vendors have moved into this space and replacement candidates abound. Many are simply low cost copies of copies, but there are numerous high dollar bobbins boasting of functionality beyond thread management.
What’s a curious fellow to do? ,,,
I found a few reviews of bobbins, but remain skeptical of the traditional angling press and magazines. Most reviews simply anoint the items as “dipped in Awesomeness” – whose author is more interested in not offending his supplier of freebies, than ensuring the rest of us get an honest appraisal. Few write about features or shortcomings, and none list any form of testing or criteria used. Like the Stock Market, fly fishing culture never lists a security as “sell” … only weaker shades of “buy.”
My quest started as a search for a good “long tube” bobbin, as they seem to be the most comfortable for me to use. They keep my fingers away from the work area and provide an unobstructed view of the works surface destined to recieve my next material or wrap. Wading through the long list of new candidates offered on web sites suggested that actual details of bobbins are rare. Trying to figure out which were “longer” than others was near impossible, given how little details were available.
First, most of the bobbins fail to mention how long they are … so you can’t tell if you’re looking at a “long tube” bobbin or a “standard” length. As standard lengths vary from vendor to vendor, the average fly fishing retailer does an abysmal job of getting information to their online users, relying on a picture and text supplied by the manufacturer, which simple restates, “trust me it’s awesome.” Most bobbin listings have no length described whatsoever, and others list the barrel length, but not the overall length, and as there is no “standard” other than the original Matarelli sizes, confusion runs rampant.
Example 1: $20 Bobbin. Loon Ergonomic Bobbin :An ergonomic and high-performing update to the indispensable tying tool. The powder coated ergonomic handle rests perfectly between the thumb and fingers, while the spring steel spool holder allows for easy adjustment in tension by changing the pressure applied by the feet. The tube is made of double radius polished tungsten – better than ceramic! It’s also designed with versatility in mind: the high gauge works well when tying small flies, and the tube is long enough to tackle large patterns as well. This bobbin will not work with a standard bobbin threader it need the extra long bobbin threader from Loon. [No information of bobbin or barrel length.]
Example 2: $114 Bobbin. TMC Magnetic Adjustable Bobbin: This precision-made bobbin has it all, including a fully adjustable ceramic tube and a unique magnetic tensioning device with a low startup inertia which puts an end to breaking even the finest thread. The length of the super-durable, friction-free ceramic thread tube is adjustable for different size and style flies and the versatile bobbin adapts to different width thread spools, helping to make the tying process smooth and effortless. It’s even got a built-in keeper for the tag end of your thread to keep it from falling back through the tube during storage. [No information of bobbin or barrel length]
Example 3: $37-$49 Bobbin. Tiemco Ceramic Bobbin. The durable TMC flanged bobbin tube is polished to perfection, which eliminates all friction, and simplifies tying and threading. [No information of bobbin or barrel length]
Example 4: $35 Bobbin. FlyRite Ceramic Bobbin. Standard size ceramic bobbin with tension control, allowing to adjust for different diameters and strengths of thread. [No information of bobbin or barrel length]
Example 5: $75 Bobbin, The SMHAEN bobbin is a super functional, micro adjustable-tension fly tying tool featuring a unique design and highest quality workmanship. Its tension system allows you to adjust tension with only one finger, while still working on your fly. Thanks to the perfectly designed ergonomic frame shape, you don’t even feel the internal tension system in your hand. A funnel at lower end of tube allows easy threading. The ceramic tube and the well balanced bobbin holder give you perfect thread control. Fits a range of spool sizes. [No information of bobbin or barrel length]
From the examples above you can see the problem. A fly tier with a length requirement (long tube versus regular) cannot even find out if the bobbin he’s interested in …. is either. There is no “standard” length for bobbins as the word is used to quantify different qualities, not just length, so quoting anything as standard is meaningless.
The lack of information on fly shop web sites suggested that i was about to embark on a search akin to finding vernille yarn, where I hope for the best, trust in the photograph, exhaust all due diligence, then order one and check its size and capabilities before ordering more.
The volume of new offerings suggest there are now two types of bobbins. The first being expensive bobbins that boast new features and capabilities, and the second being inexpensive copies of the traditional wire-handled Matarelli bobbin – with “inexpensive” being a relative term, as they might be two or three times what other makers charge for the same product.
I choose to investigate a few of each to test the waters. The end game was a good “long tube” bobbin that I could recommend to others, should I encounter some capability in these more expensive engineering marvels, I might be tempted to spend more … than my wire-framed baseline.
As regards testing criteria, it had to be functionality that was available with the original Matarelli bobbin to be allowed as a criteria. New bobbins might offer features not present on the Matarelli, but as different features are offered by different manufacturers, the basic criteria would have to be common to all :
Testing Criteria for Bobbin Evaluation
No impediments to threading the bobbin via mouth. Sucking the thread through the barrel to achieve a proper load.
Would it accept “sewing” machine spools, or is it limited to only standard sized thread spools. This would be a feature, not a requirement.
Was the barrel length equivalent to a Matarelli “Long Tube” bobbin, or was it best described as a “standard” length bobbin. “Standard” length being roughly equivalent to a traditional Matarelli bobbin.
Smoothness of thread payout. Bobbin feet are made from plastics, metal, composites, and can be cone, round, lozenge, or pill shaped. Thread spools sold in fly shops are all plastic. Does the bobbin feet (shape and material) payout thread smoothly when pulled, or does the material or shape provide an uneven tension when thread is needed.
If a new feature is offered by the bobbin, that was not available on the traditional Matarelli, does it work? Is the feature useful, or simply “really cool.”
For the purposes of this article, please note the following:
The Barrel Length is the distance between the tip of the bobbin and the bottom of the thread tube, where the thread is inserted to load the bobbin.
The Overall Length is the distance between the tip of the bobbin and the bottom of the thread spool when a standard sized thread spool has been inserted into the bobbin.
New Features are capabilities of the bobbin that did not exist in the Matarelli family of fly tying tools; Midge, Regular, and Long Tube bobbins.
Testing Methodology. Each bobbin tied three dozen flies; Caddis Poobah – size 10, Clouser Minnow – size 2/0, and Pale Morning Dun Parachute – size 16.
The Stonfo Bobtec 1 was a pleasant surprise. It isn’t a “long tube” bobbin, rather it is slightly longer than a Matarelli Standard (about 0.25″ longer), and shorter than a Matarelli Long Tube bobbin, so it’s precisely between the two. It was a perfect fit for my hand size, did not require any adjustment on my part, and I was tying flies instantly.
I liked the Stonfo enormously, but knew it was neither a long tube bobbin, nor would it feel as good to someone with a different hand size. So my initial reaction warranted additional study.
I was able to suck thread through the barrel per normal thread load. The thread tensioner added a little more tension to the spool, but not enough to make it a true tension adjustment. Perhaps it would be useful in adjusting between 6/0 and 8/0 trout thread, but it was not enough tension to make a difference on Size A thread and a 2/0 striper fly. The thread tensioner was not useful to me as it did not have the ability to bear down on the spool, markedly increasing tension.
I did not like the bobbin legs bending easily, and staying bent. I doubt they are using spring steel versus a cheaper less resilient flavor. Prolonged use of the bobbin should have an eye for determining if a leg needs adjustment, given they can move and stay that way.
In summary, the Stonfo was an excellent bobbin, Because it was ideally suited to my hand size and grip I really liked the bobbin. It performed well on both small and large flies, as well as with heavy threads. There were no thread feed issues, the thread barrel was immaculate and smooth. It will not fit the “midge” style sewing bobbin size spools, and I tested the tensioner to see if it would compress the legs enough to allow their use, but the tensioner simply isn’t strong enough to do anything than a minor tension increase. I would recommend the bobbin, but there are many bobbins cheaper than $30 that would work as well as the Stonfo.
Bobbin: 4 stars. New feature: Thread tensioner, 1 star. It tensions the thread slightly, not enough to matter.
New Feature: Thread barrel and thread barrel housing spin on bearings
This bobbin advertises that all “torque” is removed from the thread as the tier’s thread wraps are negated by the free spinning bobbin barrel and housing. Each turn of thread taken on the fly is now free of the rotational forces of our “clockwise” or “counterclockwise” wraps.
This bobbin feels “fat” in the hand, and is the second longest of the first group tested. When loaded with thread it’s a full five inches from tip to spool butt, and for some pedestal vices that may be a bit much. A tier planning on purchasing a new vise should check the distance between jaw and table, as any bobbin approaching this five inch length may have issues when free hanging under the vise. Use of a dubbing loop or similar device requiring the bobbin be some distance from the hook shank, may not allow the bobbin to “hang” freely, rather it might have to hang off the table surface to hold tension.
The bobbin spins true, but only the black colored area of the bobbin allows you to impart spin to the bobbin. All silver areas spin without moving the bobbin, so dubbed loops require a thumb and forefinger low on the bobbin, in the area of knurled knob at midpoint. I did not find this useful, rather I felt constrained by NOT being able to grab the thread barrel and spin between thumb and forefinger. I can’t say the natural “torque” I impart to the thread via wraps as having ever been bothersome, so I cannot justify all the glitzy spinning elements as being warranted.
I had difficulty sucking the thread through the bobbin with my mouth. I could do it, just not as consistently as with any other bobbin tested. I was able to get the thread into the barrel, but occasionally it seemed it stuck to the sides of the tube (via damp breath?} and never came out the other end. This bobbin comes with its own threader cleaner to aid in loading the barrel, but for me these extra tools are simply something to misplace or drop.
Operation of the bobbin was flawless and silky smooth. There were no issues with thread handling or management with the rotating barrel or the rotating grip portion on the bobbin. Once threaded, the bobbin did its job admirably, and handled both heavy thread and trout sizes very nicely.
This bobbin will not fit the smaller “midge” spools of thread, only standard sized spools.
Bobbin: 3 stars. As I did not like the feel in my hand, too bulky. Could not load thread reliably via mouth, Had to grip below the midpoint to impart “spin” to the dubbed loop. (Silver portion of the bobbin is on bearings, only the black portion of the bobbin allows you to spin it.) Probably feels good to someone with larger hands than mine. New feature: Spinning barrel and housing0 stars. I cannot claim that the torque imparted to thread is that bad of a condition to warrant this extremely expensive fix.
I chose the Renzetti Salt Water Bobbin as it appeared to be the “long tube” version of the Renzetti bobbin line. As the dimensions of the bobbin are not typically part of the website write up, I used photos of the bobbin to determine it was the longer style. It turns out that the Renzetti Saltwater Standard Bobbin is the longest of all the bobbins tested in this first group, coming in at 5.25″ from ruby tip to the base of the thread spool.
Like the Kopter Bobbin, this long length could pose a problem for a pedestal user, whose vise is a bit shorter than most. The longer length is fine for wrapping thread, and it’s useful when tying streamers on long shanked hooks, as you can get the thread in close to the shank for precision work, yet keeping your fingers out of your line of vision and out of the work area entirely.
The plastic / composite feet held spools of thread well and provided a clean smooth surface when paying out thread while wrapping. The flared base of the thread barrel aided loading the bobbin with thread prior to sucking it through the barrel. The bobbin boasts a larger barrel diameter already, given it’s a saltwater bobbin, but I found the flared end to be a nice touch overall.
Renzetti’s use of the term “standard” is also a bit confusing, given that most makers use standard to refer to length, and Renzetti appears to be using it to distinguish it’s LINE of bobbins, versus shape or length.
There were no new features on the bobbin other than the flared thread barrel. The “ruby tip” I’m lumping into the ceramic tube category, and for the purposes of this article, makes it a new material choice instead of a new feature.
Loading the barrel via “suck” worked fine as did the thread barrel (ruby tip) and bobbin feet. Both thread barrel and feet were quite smooth and worked effortlessly. The larger size lent itself nicely to size “A” thread and lashing a gob of bucktail to a 2/0 hook.
In summary, this is a nice bobbin for any size fly and outside of the issue with length and short pedestal based vises, would not hesitate to use it as a primary bobbin.
Bobbin 4 Stars. It is a Matarelli replacement with no additional gadgetry and feature set. A worthy replacement for a Matarelli bobbin.
New Features: Flared Barrel (both ends), Thread retainer (Plastic cap on thread barrel)
Griffin was the second vendor to lump their “long tube” option in with “Saltwater” … not sure if this is a trend among manufacturers, but the longer tube doesn’t necessarily mean bigger flies, it’s mostly a hand configuration or “fingers away from the work area” issue, versus simply long tube equals big flies…
This is another of the traditional replacements for the Matarelli bobbin. The flared ends of the thread barrel are a nice touch. Feeding thread is assisted by the larger opening, and the flared tip of the bobbin didn’t give me anything new but it didn’t hinder anything either. I could suck thread through with minimal issue, and each thread load worked flawlessly.
Both barrel and feet fed thread smoothly with little resistance, and thread tension was liight and adjustable in the old manner, stretching the feet outward. The thread retainer, which was nothing more than a rubber cap added onto the top of the thread barrel, was a good idea but it’s likely to be misplaced immediately. I hope Griffin sells these by the dozen, as I’d like to add them to all my bobbins – and keep extras in my bench when I lose the SOB’s …
The bobbin comes with a wire threader in the package.
This is a suitable Matarelli replacement. A serviceable “no frills” bobbin, nothing new to speak of and nothing to complain about either.
Bobbin: 4 stars. New Feature: Thread Cap, 1 star, as it will be lost within the week. Four star idea to cap the bobbin tip with a simple rubber cap, but you need a couple dozen caps close by so you can replace them as they are lost or misplaced.
New Features: Thread tensioner, thread loading, dubbing loop tool
This bobbin is something otherwordly, and I’m not sure how best to characterize it. I love and hate it, and understand that in order to rate it properly, I will need to spend a bit of time learning how to use it. At the moment I’m unsure if it’s a work of art, an engineering marvel, or a complete waste of time.
Let’s start at the beginning. Of the first group of bobbins tested, this is the only bobbin that brings new functionality to the tier, but will require the tier to learn how to use the tool as not all of the features and functionality are intuitive.
It may help to watch a few of the videos on Youtube featuring the designer Marc Petitjean to see how effortless the bobbin can be used by tiers practiced in its use … it will help you over the rough spots as you fumble your way through your initial encounter.
As I did.
New Feature: No thread barrel. The thread is held by a small metal clip on the bottom of the tube, and is threaded onto a small circular wire at the tip of the tube, there is no hollow barrel – rather it’s a hollowed out groove for the thread to follow when inserted into the clip and the tip guide. The wire guide at the top of the barrel has a minute opening that allows thread to be inserted into the loop, but the minute opening also dictates how the bobbin is held, as the thread can come out of the tip as easily as it is added.
Think of it as, thread moves around the barrel when you make a wrap around the hook shank, so you want to avoid the thread approaching the opening. I found it easy to understand how to avoid the thread coming out of the tip when winding around the hook shank, I’m still attempting to understand how to avoid the thread coming out when winding a parachute post – and my hand is not moving in a vertical plane. It may be as simple as keeping the bobbin parallel to the parachute wing and pointed downward, as pointing the bobbin at the wing post allows the thread to escape the tip guide. These are small adjustments in the use of the bobbin that are not intuitive, you have to puzzle out the mechanics and practice.
Example of Physics: I wind right-handed, typically wrapping clockwise around the hook shank. I find holding the bobbin with my thumb on the tensioner keeps the thread contained within the wire guide. If I was left-handed, or wrapped the bobbin counterclockwise, my instinct now is that I would hold the bobbin 180 degrees differently. This may or may not be true, I’ll have to puzzle through the actual physics when I have mastered all the basic skill with the bobbin.
New Feature: Thread Tensioner. This bobbin offers a thread tensioner operating on the same principle as the Stonfo bobbin; a sliding block that brings the bobbin feet closer together, thereby increasing tension on the thread spool. The difference between the Stonfo and the Petitjean is the Petitjean tensioner really can adjust thread tension, and the Stonfo cannot.
I was able to adjust the tension on the spool to the point where I might be able to break a light thread, 8/0 or finer. This was a welcome adjustment on the large saltwater flies I tied, as I could adjust the tension for the size “A” thread and really secure bucktail and flashabou. This thread tensioner actually works, but isn’t a complete brake on the thread spool, just offers real noticeable resistance when set to heavy thread.
New Feature: Dubbing Loop tool. The Petitjean bobbin has a small notch in the thread guide area that allows you to throw a dubbed loop, add dubbing or other material to the loop, insert the bobbin tip into the base of the loop, then pull downward to secure the loop onto the notched area. Once secured, the bobbin can be spun to make the dubbing brush.
In the video the finished dubbed loop is fed onto the shank via vise rotation, and most tiers – even those with rotating vises don’t use that functionality often. I am attempting to learn to wind the dubbed loop using the bobbin instead. This is a bit awkward, yet I see videos of other tiers that have managed it so more work is needed before I can make the transition comfortably.
What I can say is that the bobbin makes dubbed loops so easy and convenient that I find myself using them a lot more than normal because of the new functionality.
Summary: This could be the bobbin that obsoleces the Matarelli standard. The Petitjean bobbin requires effort and time to learn and I am not there yet. The feed and thread management is largely effortless and works quite well, but the cost of the bobbin and the investment to relearn how to use it is non trivial.
I want to give the bobbin four stars, but I recognize that is the masochist in me speaking. I love a good challenge, and this bobbin provides a glimpse of what the future may hold for bobbin technology with appropriate practice.
Summary: This bobbin is not for the beginner tier, and the cost is approaching nosebleed levels, so I would advise potential buyers to find one they can try first before purchasing one. I really like this bobbin, but until I work through all the adjustments needed for winding thread in different planes, I would not recommend this for the average fly tier. A few videos on Youtube are available, most rate it as “dipped in Awesomeness” per normal, but it’s likely they did so after mastering the nuances of the device.
The price tag when compared to our existing bobbins is astronomical. The Petitjean bobbin eliminates a threader cleaner, and a dubbing brush tool, which reduces the nosebleed costs slightly …with the remaining costs compensated only by the increased functionality.
Bobbin: Will rate later. New Features: 4 Stars. The first real thread tensioning I’ve encountered, the first dubbed loop functionality added to a bobbin (that really works), and the threading on clip and tip, instead of the hollow thread barrel – works as advertised – provided you hold the bobbin correctly. Holding the bobbin with thumb on the lower barrel “clip” side works flawlessly, holding the thumb on the “non clip” side allows the thread to escape the tip when wound around the hook shank.
Part 2 of 2: Bobbin Reviews: Lots of Options, Plenty of Price Points, and a Glimpse of the Future
In the next installment I will select an additional set of bobbins containing as many high dollar “engineering marvels” as possible, with a couple low cost Matarelli clones to ensure we get a good cross section. All the bobbins tested so far provided the basic functionality needed, with the only unknown being longevity, and would the different types of barrels and feet survive several decades of use and remain smooth and unscathed.
Disclaimer: All of the bobbins reviewed above were purchased by me at full retail. This ensures some small amount of integrity on my part, and gives me the ability to factor in the cost with the functionality, something I would not be able to do with gifted products.
