“What’s that, ANOTHER rod?”

“Honest Sweetpea, it’s background material for a expose of the sinister prac..”

“Junior needs ORTHODONTURE, and you’re SQUANDERING OUR money on more Rods?”

The fly line piece has great merit – I’ll let the domestic scene cool a bit first.

How about looking at the economics of flylines given there is something like 10,000 different flylines, brands, tapers, sizes and colors out there, while about 95% of the population uses a WF floater _ on average 3-5 years.

Who is paying for the diversity and all the stock sitting on shelves _ we are with $65 and $99 flylines.

Cheers and keep it up.

My inquiries of the rod companies were brushed off routinely, requiring me to piece together the story from less reliable sources – eBay transaction logs, etc.

This is pretty consistent with my experience in the retail side of things; manufacturers listen patiently as you explain what would really work for you – then tell you “how the Cow eats the cabbage.”

It’s a one-sided conversation to be sure.

I am no longer involved with the day to day operations of a fly shop – but as a consumer, I think the volume of new items (rods, lines, vests, etc.) is on the upswing – making the effective lifespan shorter. Simm’s changes a zipper style on a vest – and suddenly it’s a “new” model.

It’s good capitalism at work – as what every manufacturer wants is a steady stream of revenue, not a jerky “peaks and valleys” style of income they get with 3 year product lifespan.

It’s the same thing occurring in the software industry – where yearly “subscriptions” are replacing the discrete boxed version release. It steadies the revenue stream allowing the financial planners to know what their income will be – rather than guess at what they’ll sell this calendar year.

…and my thanks for allowing me to retain my “old curmudgeon” opinion. It’s all show – as I own enough tackle not to need any more rods. Not out of wisdom, more an artifact that many the shops I worked for in my youth failed – requiring employees to take their salary in items instead. It gives me the luxury of my unpopular (albeit cheaper) boast of a rod’s worth.

I am concerned that rod makers are less inclined to make practical choices with rod science – I think their only goal is “new” – not practical. Shaving 1/2 an ounce off a 2 ounce rod is neat – but when did you complain of the weight of the 2 ounce rod?

…and is that really worth an extra $300 ? That’s a tough call, for me – it’s not worth the price.

I appreciate being taken to task – as this is the type of dialog that allows readers to be educated and entertained.

…educated by your comments – and entertained while I “backpedal” in a panic.

Welcome aboard Sir – we’re pleased to have you.

You certainly did some work, and your best work, with that excel piece. I’m going to peruse your data more carefully, but as a fly shop retailer and a former journalist, I have to say some of your assumptions on the retailer side just didn’t delve deep enough.

They are common enough assumptions but I learnt my first day as a journo (thank goodness, or I’d have committed worse sins over the years) to never assume you know everything, even if it’s commonly held as fact in the general community. Unfortunately this then reinforces misconceptions, and you get all the pats on the back from those who hold them.

I also read of your 20y in the retail business, but I’d be curious if you were at the buying, financial end or the sales end given some of your statements.

This isn’t personal criticism merely a question of perspective and I have to say I know of several fly shop owners who have or are going broke fast because they don’t get retail economics _ doesn’t make them bad salespersons, fly fishers or people.

I hope the constructive criticism to come will be of better service to your future endeavors and of your readers.

But you do understand the implications of journalism: that if you start looking at the issues then the “bullseye on your ample ass” as you eloquently put it, is going to get some gainful employment. Let me take aim LOL.

First off let me clarify the average shelf life of a rod model is 3-5 years, not yearly. I’m sure you understand rod manufacturers introduce a new model every year but these rotate through their lineup, but others might not. Getting rid of “old” inventory is an annual circus for a retailer but manage your stocks right and you can generally do ok. I wouldn’t have liked being an Orvis dealer with the Zero-G/Helios transition but that was an exception to standard.

Then again your expose on the R rod program, plus tent sales, and some of Orvis’ other practices make me pretty glad not to be an Orvis dealer.

If you are a Sage, Scott, Winston, St Croix dealer you can mark down discontinued items after a given date to pursue a quick clearance. Ebay & Amazon is an option for these rods. But listing full price rods on Ebay is not allowed for dealers even if it’s not auctioned but listed at full retail as a buy it now item.

I’d suggest that biggest headache for a small retailer is the method of volume driven manufacturer pricing, which punishes retailers for prudent buying.
Do the comparisons with seasonal changes in a small fashion boutique or how about a computer store on the issues of obsolescence to understand this is not an uncommon issue in retailing.

At the end of the first piece you did confirm your “sensibility” _ or in the mainstream its usually referred to as a bias, don’t worry every writer and reader has one _ that no rod is worth over $200. I can cope with your opinion, these are abundant in the world of fly fishing but not your assertion that there is $500+ pure profit in a $600 rod.

Let’s break it down. Say a $500 rod for example so I don’t have to break out the calculator. The fly shop is going to pay between $250 and$300 for that rod, depending on the manufacturer and how many rods are early ordered for the season.

Specialty retail experts will say your costs to run the shop will eat at least $150-200 of your $500 sale when you take into salaries, rent, electricity insurance, blah blah etc etc. Yep don’t buy enough, or don’t keep your costs down and the retailer might not make any money on that sale, at best $150.
It’s hard to describe this as pure profit, after all it paid your salary, mine, keeps Americans employed and our economy ticking over unless you don’t want fly shops. And remember since we are discussing new models there will be some at the end of the rod’s life which will have to be discounted anyway.

So to our manufacturing side the rod is sold for $250 (again for simplicity). $25 bucks is going to the rep, Mike Michalak has been critical on the role of the reps, earning their slice of the pie, but I’d be complimentary about mine, plus their costs to travel my territory are skyrocketing. Mike is a great operator but he should try working in Europe where a distributor system will add another layer of cost to US made rods _ 30%, to retailer’s purchase price. Reps are way cheaper.

Somewhere between $100 and $150 bucks will go on the costs of business, salaries, advertising lawyers materials etc etc. So we have $75 to $100 at the manufacturers end for what most say is a few cents worth of materials. I’m not a graphite buyer but in my research for the past 10 minutes on manufacturing costs in the sporting industry found some 2003 figures that showed across the sporting goods industry the cost of materials and supplies was actually 76% of manufacturing costs. (Just a sidenote).

So if that seems like the manufacturer gets a hefty $ chunk as profit let’s not forget the one element which is not a standard in manufacturing and does play heavily on pricing, particularly when comparing Ebay and retail rods, which is warranties.

Just remember you have that rod for life and otherwise catastrophic damage will be fixed for 1/12 the value. It’s something that has always triggered issues with me over the value of second hand rods on Ebay or elsewhere.

Taking the warranty away from a rod to my mind at least must significantly devalue that rod.
Similarly for the Orvis R rods you mention.

Statistical analysis is always open to debate but I would suggest that the only thing you can draw from your data is that some consumers will pay $650 for a ZeroG with a life time warranty, at retail outlets. Others will pay $220 to $290 for one without via Ebay outlets you mention.

It certainly doesn’t say rods are overpriced, merely that consumers will pay different prices for different products.
One for life, one which could last as long as its first meeting with a tungsten bead.

Which brings me to an interesting question _ what if rod warranties were an optional extra, to be purchased, like an extended computer warranty. To my mind it would bring a lot more accountability to the process , lower rod prices and give consumers a choice.

And finally
Thanks for making me think over this stuff again ?